“We may never become accustomed to
untrue and unjust criticism,
but we ought not to be
immobilized by it.”
– Elder Neal A Maxwell
There has been quite the online backlash against an address which was given by Elder Dale G Renlund and his wife this month. I hadn’t really been interested in this address, since we already get plenty of them as members of the Church. Besides, I am married and over the age of 40, which takes me out of the 18-30 year old age group for whom the Worldwide Devotionals For Young Adults are intended. However, my curiosity was piqued by the intensity of dislike in the comments, the negative reviews in blogs and newspapers, and by the increasing number of them as time as gone on. So I did a little research.
I learned that the maiden voyage of this address did not occur this month. No, this is at least it’s second delivery to a worldwide audience. Here’s a snippet from an article at lds.org by Marianne Holman Prescott entitled, “Help Doubting Students Choose to ‘Be Believing’ Elder Renlund Tells Seminary And Institute Teachers.”
Elder Dale G Renlund of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles taught during a broadcast for seminary and institute instructors held on June 12.
“The message that we have is ‘doubt not, but be believing,’” said Elder Renlund.
Speaking with his wife, Sister Ruth L. Renlund, in the Conference Center Little Theater in downtown Salt Lake City—and to thousands of instructors around the world after the talks were translated into 40 languages—the couple explored how choosing faith, rather than doubt, is how individuals—and those they teach—are able to come unto the Savior.
The annual broadcast was for the more than 50,000 seminary and institute teachers in 140 countries throughout the world responsible for teaching 262,778 stake seminary students, 138,956 released-time seminary students, and more than 335,000 institute students.
The image, above, obtained from that article, best reflects the countenance typical of Sister Renlund during her talk. I know that look. As a maternal abuse survivor, I know that look very, very well. But more on that, later.
Understanding something of the Law of Witnesses, which to me means that one would be wise to pay attention when something is testified of more than once, especially when that second witness is identical to the first… and desiring to determine for myself if the hurt and anger I was reading in so many comments was justified, I decided to watch the broadcast for myself. I did so last night.
I decided to maintain a running written commentary as if I were on a live chat feed, pausing the video to write down my thoughts, and then continuing on. Yes, I know it is an elaborate way of talking to myself and to the speaker, but it is often by the means of writing that I am able to sort out all my impressions, thoughts and feelings enough to determine what is true. When there is written material that I really want to study, I also write all over it with underlining, notes and commentary, and sometimes a second run-over with color-coded subject sorting. So this process isn’t unusual for me at all.
The address, “Doubt Not But Be Believing” was delivered by Elder Dale G Renlund with Sister Ruth L Renlund on Sunday, January 13, 2019. I have tried to head each of my comments by the time key listed in the full broadcast video available here. Please be forewarned that these comments have no filter. I am being completely emotionally and intellectually honest, and I make no apologies for it. Yes, heart and mind are both on board, and I’m running my mouth through my fingertips.
0:32
I was reminded of some bishops and stake presidents that I have had, who have hung the photographs of the presiding 15 Brethren in their offices. I always thought this was a good thing. I have thought this because in my experience, the men who did this were not only sincere followers of the First Presidency and Quorum of Apostles but were also scholars of their teachings. I had one bishop in particular, a former Institute teacher, who was very careful in his effort to never teach me anything that he hadn’t learned or had confirmed by the words of the prophets and apostles. He would often supply me with a copy of one of the talks related to what we were discussing. This always gave me a sense of security and trust.
So it was a little bit alarming to me, as I looked at this classroom wall with labeled photos of the top Brethren, to have one thought come to mind: “Idolatry”. I questioned that. Are we, as a people, increasingly coming toward a state of idolatry in regard to the General Authorities? Aren’t they all men, just as we are?
Maybe this thought occurred to me because I had stumbled across Revelations 19:10 and 22:9 (two witnesses!) in my studies this week.
0:38
This music is so beautiful. It touches my heart very deeply. I wish it was available as an MP3. When I was a Young Adult, especially in moments of great struggle when I had attended the Worldwide Devotional, this music always welcomed the Spirit, bringing great peace and comfort with it.
1:10
Wait, what? This is being broadcast from BYU-Hawaii? Land of my forefathers?
1:15
Odd thought. If colonization had never happened, if the Kingdom of Hawaii had been left unmolested by U.S. Imperialism operating under the mentality of Manifest Destiny, would this young woman be standing at that podium this day looking like that (a mixture of Polynesian and other peoples who have flocked to the Hawaiian Islands)? Would she be standing there, dressed like that, in modern Western garb? No, on both counts, I don’t think so. Here we see demonstrated the success of their dream: Well-behaved First Peoples, “brought to a knowledge of the truth”, who look and sound and believe like their conquerors. It makes me feel kind of sad, in a way. But I have always felt sad at the worldwide cultural homogenization that has been occurring since before I was born, and just keeps increasing. The elimination of the beauty of variety. Is this what we really want? All shades of ice cream, but all vanilla flavored?
2:25
I wonder if these men were instructed to bring their wives. My gut says yes. I wonder why this is. My first instinct is to say that this is modeling behavior. It is also being done to quell the complaints about all-male leadership. The fact remains that men are ordained to the Priesthood. I am a little bothered by the unspoken lesson inherent in the silent accompanying wife. Is she there as eye-candy and podium filler? Is she there to present the appearance of a unified male-female front of equals? Though we presume she has been clothed in the robes of the Holy Priesthood, she’s still mute and office-less. Therefore she’s still the lesser partner.
3:20
Cute guy with cute bow tie. Hey, there’s Sister Tanner! I always thought she was a cutie, too. I must have missed that she was here in the announcements. (Yes, I did, at 2:15)
I had heard that a new president had been chosen for BYU-Hawaii, but didn’t realize that his wife was Susan Tanner, former General Young Women President (2002-2008). I just looked her up on Wikipedia to make sure and also learned that she is the author of Daughters In My Kingdom. I thought this manual was collaborative. I thought I attended a broadcast where Julie B Beck seemed to indicate that she was also involved in it. Nothing is said on the main page for the manual lds.org or on Amazon regarding her being the sole author. So I opened up the online version of the manual and found the authorship-editor acknowledgement in the acknowledgments section just before the preface.
3:32
The organist must be nervous. This chorister is doing a great job of continuing to lead while also trying to work with his friend the organist.
3:54
Wow. There are more white people there than I thought there would be.
4:12
The man in black. He looks like he is in pain. But he still showed up here, when he didn’t have to. I am proud of him. I hope he gets the comfort and answers that he is seeking.
4:26
Woman with the fan earrings and hair bound up on top her head reminds me of myself, somehow. Maybe because I have fan earrings. Only… I can’t wear my hair like that in public where I live. People would look at me strange. She’s blessed that she can. That hairstyle, so normal in this audience, reminds me a little bit of sea-faring Moana in her boat, too.
4:38
The woman at the lower left of the screen reminds me very much of my mother. What my mother might have looked like at her age. After all, Mom was born and raised on Oahu. The Church meant everything to her. Just everything. It still does.
5:04
Ooh. Big empty section. The Church doesn’t usually like to show stuff like that in broadcasts. But it looks like they’re filling it up with late arrivals. I guess that’s typical of the Islands. My Mom tells me stories about her grandmother, Mary, one of the early LDS converts in Hawaii. Mary was in leadership, and would deal with the tardiness of attendees by beginning the meeting on time, even if she was the only one there. Yes, she would sing the opening hymn, say the opening prayer, and even begin the lesson. If you showed up a half hour late and missed half the lesson because she didn’t wait for you, then you did.Time waits for no man, and neither, apparently, did Mary.
5:10
They’ve obviously noticed they’re on camera, and the woman on the left is NOT comfortable with it. I’ve noticed since I was a kid that the proper behavior at an LDS event where there is a camera on you is to pretend like you don’t know it’s there… like it’s not there… even though it is. I’ve noticed how, many times, once somebody realizes they are on camera, they will almost instantly cut out of that feed and go to another one. But they don’t here, which is unusual.
5:16
Hey wow! I get to see the camera man! I’ve always wondered how they hide it when they’re taping live. This must be a young crew of technicians. I am enjoying the beautiful imperfection of their learning process.
5:26
Still the same babes on camera, and then some… and nobody is liking it, and they’re all wondering why the camera man hasn’t moved his aim. Maybe he likes one of them
5:40
Hey, braddah! The guy on the left! Watch him tell his wife, yup, that they’re on camera! He reminds me very much of Brother Hirum, a Hawaiian Latter-day Saint from my childhood whom I love.
5:44
LOL! Love the eyebrow wiggling of hello, braddah!
6:09
Wow. Lots of handheld devices. Sometimes I forget about that, and how much different it makes the youth of today and their experiences from what mine were.
6:16
(Noticing the cough.) Bless you, Sister Tanner. Are you sick?
6:19
She realized she was on camera and put on the smiles and acted like it’s eye wasn’t on her. Like a good little Latter-day Saint. (6:50, another cough. Yes, she’s sick, but she is there because she is expected to be. 6:55, swallowing what she coughed up.)
6:37
That young lady in the back row wearing blue is really pretty. Again, I am reminded of a young version of my mother.
8:52
The prayer has concluded. Judging by this young man’s beauty – in appearance and word – I would say he is a faithful and fully believing member who came here expecting to be spiritually fed. Again, he is a fruit of U.S. Imperialism and early LDS missionary work on the Island. One could argue that the ends justify the means… I guess.
8:57
Noticing movement from Sister Renlund, almost as if she was about to stand up already? She is ready to go… vamping up… getting a big drink of water from underneath her chair.
9:39
Elder Renlund was a doctor, and Sister Renlund was an attorney. So… we will be hearing from a physician and a pharisee. I believe Jesus is recorded to have made certain observations about those professions…
9:43
They had one daughter. I guess that makes sense with both parents being busy with full-time careers, since no failure in the home can compensate for any professional success. Having one child would presumably ensure that what home time they had would be devoted to this one child, and to raising her well.
10:13
The choir has begun to sing. I can clearly hear one tenor voice singing his harmony part, and it’s much louder than everybody else. It sounds very much like he’s not over-singing, but that he’s too close to the microphone. Another demonstration that this team of volunteer technicians is doing their best. After all, this is a university, and they are probably doing all this work as part of their schooling.
10:55
Again, more white people than I expected.
11:02, 11:10
But they’re doing close-ups on women of color. I know the Church is trying really hard to change the perception that they are a white-centric church. But sometimes, actions like this irritate me because they’re a PR move. They do the same thing with the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square, too. It feels deliberate. Like it was instructed. And that’s indicative of premeditated design rather than spontaneous thought.
The bottom line is, the perception they’re trying to give simply isn’t true. Minorities are still a minority, both outside and inside the church. Would the camera be on that person if it wasn’t for their skin color? Probably not, and you know it. Therefore, this very effort is racist. A truly color-blind church wouldn’t do this. It would film people, children of God; not their colors.
11:26
Good. I think they corrected the microphone problem
13:23
Awake my soul, no longer droop in sin. Something tells me we will be hearing more about that. They always pick songs like this one when you’re about to get a lecture on something you’re doing wrong.
13:37
Sung to the same tune as the hymn, “Be Still, My Soul”
14:17
I like the sincerity and belief on this young man’s face
16:04
“We feel prompted to discuss a topic that has been on our minds for many months.”
We? We? Since when was Sister Renlund called as an apostle? I acknowledge and accept the apostolic authority, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost, of Elder Renlund. However, in regard to Sister Renlund, I’m sorry, but I must ask that fatal question once asked by another, By what authority? Your husband’s apostolic authority? You may be a queen and a priestess unto him. However, last I heard, as a woman, you are recognized in this Church as authorized to have no such equivalent authority of Priesthood office, even vicariously.
16:16
They affirm that they have delivered this talk before. I can therefore assume that it’s contents were reviewed at that time by the Brethren and not found to be wanting. In fact, I can assume that by the honor of being allowed the opportunity, or better said, given the assignment to deliver the talk again, that all the Brethren are in accord with it and fully stand behind its teachings. Like I said earlier, the law of second witness is in effect here. Better pay attention.
It is also significant that the Church invested time, talents, and tithe moneys to create this animation for the Renlunds. Obviously, obtaining such material required approval from authority. Whose?
16:26
“Imagine having capsized in a boat while sailing in the ocean.”
No other details about this boat, it’s origin point, it’s intended destination, or the journey, are given. But you can see from the illustration of the rigging that it is a sailboat, and that the impression is being given that the boy was traveling all alone. No details are given about how or why the boat capsized, although the boat looks like a newer boat. There is no obvious damage appearing above water, but it is tilted, indicating that there must be a hole in in the hull somewhere beneath the water. You are not told if it was pilot error or the boat hit an obstacle or was attacked by a shark or something. However, there are two oars floating in the water, imagery which subtly implies user-error.
I looked up the word capsize. “Capsizing or keeling over occurs when a boat or ship is turned on its side or it is upside down in the water. The act of reversing a capsized vessel is called righting.”
I looked it up in Webster’s 1828 dictionary: “To upset or overturn; a seamans phrase.” This sounds like user-blame.
In other words, grammatically, the Renlunds dropped the implied “you” in their introductory sentence by using the passive voice. The sentence would read like this if subject pronoun were added back in: “Imagine you’ve capsized a boat while sailing in the ocean.” Nice. So now we’re going to get a lecture. Now we’re going to have blame and insult added to injury.
I entered the term “what causes a boat to capsize” in my search engine. One of the first results was a link to waininjurylaw.com, which reads
“According to the United States Coast Guard, the number one cause of boat accident injuries is capsized boats. Each year, an estimated 1,000 people die in boating accidents and many of those fatalities occur when a boat overturns and those aboard suffer head injuries or drown. How do boat capsizing events occur, and what can you do to prevent your boat from capsizing in the water?
The majority of boat capsizing incidents are caused by operational mistakes. In some cases, a boat’s operator could turn the boat too quickly, use the sail inappropriately, or use the anchor inappropriately. The fishing boat accident that killed two NFL players, Marquis Cooper and Corey Smith, took place when the boat’s operator attempted to pull up a stuck anchor by throttling the engine.
Speed is another common reason for boats to capsize – another completely avoidable cause for a boat flipping related to the vessel’s operator or captain. Other boat capsizing incidents take place because of rough seas or inclement weather. In still other cases, a boat can capsize when the boat suffers other damage.
The best way to prevent a capsizing incident is to have someone with experience and common sense operating the boat. [Gee, I wonder who you’re going to tell me that someone is? Obviously you don’t think I can handle sailing my own boat.]
It is also wise not to go out into rough water or bad weather and to have your boat serviced and repaired regularly. After a boat capsizes, it can be difficult or impossible to right it – and it could take days or hours for your boat to be found by help. Capsizing incidents also often lead to boat accident injuries and fatalities. For these two reasons, it is imperative to know the causes of capsizing. “
Are you kidding me?! Whiskey Tango Sierra Foxtrot! These two have the actual hubris to stand in front of these people, this particular population of people, the Polynesians, and lecture them about maritime navigation user-error? Have the Renlunds forgotten that, as the song lyric from Moana proclaims, many of the Latter-day Saints of the Hawaiian Islands are “descendants of voyagers [like Hagoth] who found their way across the sea?”
I am one of those descendants.
As a prophet of the Lord declared, we “are some of the greatest seafaring people in all the world”… [We] pray and then [we] go. [We] pray and then [we] go. [We] pray and then [we] go.”
But I guess you forgot that part about who we are, and Who our God is.
16:31
“You’re wearing a life-preserver and you’ve been swimming for hours toward what you believe is the nearest shore.”
My mind immediately turns to my own blog post about my excommunication. Where I speak of how I had to create my own life-preserver of daily scriptural study, just to survive emotionally and spiritually. I’m surprised that they don’t say anything more about the life preserver, or what it means. If the life-preserver symbolizes the user’s own level of obedience to boat safety law, the image of the sinking boat in the background wordlessly implies that the user obviously has a lot more to learn about safely sailing a boat. They’re just a beginner and they’re not very good at it. If the life preserver symbolizes the user’s own emergency preparedness (as in, having oil in your lamp and in your vessel) the visual imagery of that desperate situation, so far from shore, still implies that anything you could possibly do on your own to float for very long is simply not enough. To me, these are very scary inferences to come from representatives of a religious organization that sometimes refers to itself among its own membership as the Ship Zion©.
I am also a little bit bothered by the words he’s stressed in this sentence. The way he says believe makes me wonder if maybe I believe wrong. Wait, I believe? This isn’t me. It’s the kid in the story. If I’ve been swimming for hours, like they said, why is the boy still so close to the boat, and why is the boat still floating above water like that? I think it was left that way to teach the unspoken lesson of the ultimate insufficiency of any personal flotation device.
16:41
“You’ve become extremely dehydrated… light-headed… fatigued.”
The continued use of the 2nd-person in telling the parable was jolting. “You, you, you” automatically made it seem confrontational and accusatory.
16:57
“In the distance, you hear a small engine. The sound seems to be coming toward you.”
Interesting that the boat is powered by an engine (man-made, man-powered) and not by the wind (Nature’s-God-powered). This man-powered engine coincides with what was taught by Brigham Young, the originator of the steam-powered riverboat snag-ship of Zion© concept. I have a whole post about that. In it, I have researched every General Conference boat or ship reference that I could find between 1852 and 2015. The Church© also talks of itself and therefore thinks of itself as a small and persecuted minority; as the “stone cut without hands”© that notwithstanding all obstacles, will eventually “fill the whole earth.” In my opinion, the people who crossed the plains in the handcart companies were perceived by outsiders as much more peculiar than our people are now.
This talk would not qualify to be included in my Good Ship Zion post, since it wasn’t delivered at a General Conference©, but I will probably add a link to this post to that list, since this twice-delivered, deluxe-animated address is obviously so important to the Leadership©.
17:24
“You consume them greedily.”
That is a very strange adjective to use. It’s condemnatory. Why wouldn’t an extremely dehydrated person dive into any fresh water they could get their hands on at that point? I am thinking here of the many times I have nursed and soothed a fretting, hungry infant.
Today’s definition of greed: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth:
“The water and crackers provide enough nourishment for you to recover.”
“The water in the canteen is a bit stale, and not what you would have preferred, like Evian or Perrier… what you really wanted was some delicatessen meat…”
Seriously?! Perrier®? Evian®? Delicatessen meats? A chocolate croissant? The way they describe The Brat reminds me very much of the character, Thurston Howell III, from Gilligan’s Island. Yes, how much of a victim can the Brat really be when he’s throwing a rich man’s toddler temper tantrum, huh?
I thought this boy was just happy to be alive. Maybe his boat that just sunk was, like, a pricey yacht or something, if these are his first thoughts.
18:07
Yes, I see the can of chum… which could be used as bait but would also attract sharks if large portions of its contents were thrown into the water all at once. There are also what appear to be two human eyeballs rolling on the floor. Um, that’s a little disconcerting. Is this also a psychological device? Are you, Brat Boy, “sailing blind”? Sailing blind because you can’t see the reality of your rescue from all doom, your supreme safety in the boat, and your überdevoted leader?
18:11
“The sweatband on his hat is stained”
This description reminds me of my abusive ex-husband, who always has to wear a sweatband if he has to do anything that requires even a small amount of exertion. So, for me, that symbol obviously wasn’t a very helpful thing for her to add to her legal argument, I mean, “parable”.
I suppose what Sister Renlund meant by the stained sweatband was that the prophet©/leader© is working really hard (sweat-stained). It could also denote that as a mortal man, the fisherman© isn’t perfect or without sin (stained). Yes, I have caught on right away to who this fisherman© is supposed to represent: one of the 15 fishermen, like Peter and the Twelve Apostles of old, who profess to be special witnesses© of that great Fisher of Men. The intent is to evoke sympathy for this presumably care-worn, charitable, hardworking old salt-of-the-earth.
You say that the fisherman©, upon careful examination, is unkempt, gross, and hard of hearing? How about hypocritical and deaf to your cries? I don’t mean to offend, but I am thinking here, of course, of the issues I raised in my last blog post about the ecclesiastical and/or sexual abuse cover-ups which have been going on for a very long time in the Church©. These scandals are not unknown to the Brethren©, and there is some indication that even they are not free from the stain of these most millstone-serious of sins.
18:17
“There are dents on the right side of the bow”
Funny, as depicted in the video© short, they don’t look like dents to me. The definition of dent is, ” a depression in a surface made by pressure or a blow.” What the animation© shows, however, is something greater than that: pieces broken off and missing. I would call these features gaps. A gap is “an opening in a solid structure or surface; a cleft or breach.” But, though large and noticeable, these gaps still aren’t that serious. If the animation© is to be relied on, the extent of gap damages do not even begin to threaten to reach beneath the water line.
How interesting that a directional location is chosen. I understand immediately what they are alluding to:
“And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.” – John 21:6
Please note that a further legal maneuver is being used here by Sister Renlund. Her intent is to plant doubt of the Brat’s perceptions and attitudes among her listeners. As she describes him, the young man’s observations seem ungrateful and arrogant. What a jerk the Brat is for sitting there and judging this poor old man and his humble, work-worn little rowboat! Thus Ruth is inferring that the only reason there are imperfections in the boat© is because of the good work© being done on it. Yes, it’s only there because of the work© of harvesting© souls that the fisherman© has been doing.
Is that where the eyeballs came from, then? From the last guy he harvested?
18:23
“You see that when the fisherman© relaxes his grip on the rudder, the boat© pulls to the right. You begin to worry…”
He© lets go of the rudder at times? Well, you said it, I didn’t. And, again, the animation© doesn’t match what is being said. He doesn’t relax his grip, he lets go. Big difference.
Here, again, in the choice of the word right are a few subliminal inferences. (Since this is a deliberately composed parable, I have every right to analyze the crap out of it.)
For example, what did we learn earlier? Danger is averted when a capsized boat is able to right itself.
Another unspoken inference is that as long as there is a fisherman©, ONE© WHO IS NOT YOU, THE STUPID MEMBER© WHO ALREADY SANK ONE BOAT sitting at the helm – with his hand© on the rudder or not – the Ship Zion©is always right.
I don’t know if Sister© Bonnie H Cordon, who gave an April 2017 General Conference talk about the dangers of tipping, of leaning unto your own understanding, would appreciate this self-righting, self-righteous assertion by Sister© Renlund.
18:31
“You begin to worry that this Boat© and this captain© cannot provide you the rescue you need.”
The message immediately is, “Why, you spoiled, ungrateful little brat! I. Saved. Your. Life! You have NO RIGHT to make a peep of complaint!” And they are talking to YOU, the Doubting Member.
The Renlunds have already labeled The Doubting Brat as dehydrated (not drawing from the wells of Living Water properly)… light-headed (not thinking clearly, maybe even crazy)… and fatigued (tsk, tsk, tsk, for not enduring to the end). Now they’re accusing him of pride and shaming him for his hypervigilant PTSD state of mind.
How does she feel, she who is sold for only one or two. No, this could not happen to my Mahana. How does he feel, this boy who is not recovered at all but still wet behind the ears? How does he feel, this boy who is still reeling from a horrible ordeal whose cause has only been inferred but not yet officially confirmed? In fact, if you think about it, the boy is still enduring it! He’s still in the middle of that original boat accident, having not yet gotten safely to shore, let alone back home yet. He hasn’t even begun to address the consequences of losing his sailboat. In no way is this young man in a truly recovered state. He is in shock. He is processing a trauma. To say he is recovered is to mock him. He is not sitting there on that bench, years later, in a true aftermath. So I ask again, how does he feel – cold, wet, and bewildered – to be condemned by the Renlunds for the very natural fear of experiencing yet another boat accident after having just emerged from the waters of one?!
Emerging from the waters? Isn’t that a euphimistic term for coming out of the baptismal© font? What? Was that other boat a Ship Zion©, too? An LDS ward© or branch© maybe? Was it part of the fleet of Sheep, I mean, Ship Zion International©? And you two condemn The Doubting Brat for being afraid of it happening again?! What if he wasn’t the captain, but was part of a boat crew of which he is the only survivor? What if he wasn’t the captain but a passenger who trusted another fisherman© or captain© who just about managed to kill him? What if The Doubting Brat has real, legitimate reason to be afraid, very much afraid? This isn’t about not having any caviar, Lovey, this is about the very real fear of Authorized© Creeps and Decrepit Sailing Crafts©! How can you possibly expect this young man, with the wisdom of his experiences, to settle in to the conditions of this poorly maintained boat© manned by this poorly maintained fisherman© without questioning his own safety and survival? The fisherman© has neither pride of ownership nor, if his grooming is any indication, much respect or care for himself. The Doubting Brat doesn’t know this man from Adam. There is no relationship of trust between them, no emotional bank account to draw from. Therefore, how dare you condemn this new young passenger for his flood of genuine feelings, good and bad?
May I also whop both of you upside the head with a giant ichthys and sternly remind you that the captain of the boat© is not your fisherman©. It is Jesus Christ himself. See Exodus 23:20-23; Joshua 5:14; 2 Chronicles 13:12; Hebrews 2:9-11; BD Christ “the Captain of Our Salvation”. But I suspect you have forgotten or deliberately overlooked that.
So I just went to my Evil Apostate Search Engine Of Answers Not Officially Authorized By The Church© and entered the search term “Ruth Renlund Attorney”. Some of the taglines I found included the following tidbits of information. She has been a “personal injury trial lawyer” and is “the daughter of an insurance defense lawyer.” The tagline connected to a paper she authored states, “Ruth Lybbert Renlund has lived an exemplary personal and professional life.” Woo. Let’s stick up that nose a little higher. Another tagline from lds.org© states “Sister Ruth Lybbert Renlund, who practiced law as a civil litigation attorney for more than 20 years and is the former president of a law firm, gives the keynote address at the January 20 J. Reuben Clark© Law Society© fireside©, at which she received the Exemplary Leadership Award©.” Senator “Dingy” Harry Reed was also honored at that fireside. I couldn’t help but think of that line from Princess Bride,
“You keep using that word, [exemplary]. I don’t think it means what you think it means.” – The Princess Bride, paraphrased
She’s a lawyer, and whoa, look at what type of a lawyer! This explains EVERYTHING, especially the animated© short. If she didn’t write this talk herself, she certainly co-wrote it. We’re not in the Church© conference auditorium, my fellow brothers and sisters of the congregation©. We’re actually in the court room, where the dissecting physician© and litigious attorney© are jointly exhibiting their well-honed craft.
18:54
“You’re stunned!”
WHAT?! The Snag Ship Zion© is in rough shape? Well, you said it, I didn’t. The Renlunds seem to infer that the “perceived” imperfection/damage is only cosmetic, anyway. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Especially when he or she has a vested interest in that conceptualization.
“And why could the nourishment© not have been more to your liking?”
Translation: What the so simple, so humble Church© provides is not good enough for the Spoiled Brat.
Last time I looked, the multi-billion, perhaps even multi-trillion dollar corporate Church© is not a humble, broken-down rowboat© that is “good enough for who it’s for”.
Last time I looked the Presiding Brethren© were not tromping about giving VIP’s tours of the Rome Italy Temple© looking and smelling like that poor and simple fisherman. And check out those take-home Christus© statues! Did everybody who came to the open house© get one of those… or just the VIP’s? (And is that why the fisherman© had so little money left that he could only provide the Doubting Brat with those stale crackers©?)
Like a full military fleet anchored at harbors© around the world, we also own most of the buildings© that house these resources. So how can this smorgasbord possibly be compared to stale crackers and swampy water? Honestly, these sanctimonious similes offend my intelligence. Especially because they do not portray reality.
19:11
“Your anxiety begins to grow.”
The key word being YOUR. The Renlund’s aren’t worried. The Church© they represent isn’t worried. Or are they? Else why would the Renlunds be up there, redelivering this talk? In this thing we have a classic example of how an toxic person, a narcissitic abuser, projects his own character defects onto his victim.
“A projection is an unconscious defense mechanism in which the individual ejects aggressive, negative feelings and thoughts on to another person. Most people are unaware of their projections. If they get upset or angry or enraged,they simply let it spew out on those closest to them—children, spouses, business associates, siblings.
Narcissists are constantly projecting feelings that they cannot tolerate out rather than turning inward, identifying that they are projecting and owning what they have done. The narcissist creates his own world. Everything revolves around him/her. He believes that he is the initiator and master of his personal and professional domain. Everyone has a role and that is of serving him and his specific purposes. This characterlogical structure is not going to change; it is rigid and unyielding. Besides the narcissist is never wrong. He automatically blames others when anything goes awry. It is very stressful to be the recipient of narcissistic projections. The sheer force of the narcissist’s accusations and recriminations is stunning and disorienting. No one deserves to be accused, demeaned, humiliated and treated like an inferior human being” – Linda Martinez-Lewi, PhD
19:12
“Finally, you demand that the fisherman© stop the boat© and let you back in the water.”
You’re kidding me, right? The Doubting Brat must really have sustained a head injury to demand such a thing. Look, he’s even stomping and throwing up his fists like a toddler. Usually when my toddler acts like this there is also something legitimately wrong. They do not feel understood though they’ve attempted to communicate what is wrong for a while now. Perhaps they are tired, or hungry. Maybe they’re hot or need a diaper change. Maybe it’s a combination of these. Yes, sometimes it is about a power struggle, but I’m not threatened by that normal developmental step. I usually just give my child the benefit of the doubt, take his distress at face value and check, in my role as his caretaker, to make sure that all his normal needs have been met and the concerns of the heart have been heard, understood and assuaged. If it’s important to him, it’s important to me.
Part of the maturing process of toddlerhood is learning who is in charge and finally coming to that fifth and last stage of grief: Acceptance. A toddler must, in the end, accept where he is empowered and where he is not. In those areas of his life where he is powerless, he must learn to yield willing obedience to the adult figure. Hopefully this obedience is a natural outgrowth of a trust he has already learned in them. This is the work of the child from infancy to 12 months: to learn to trust or not to trust. Best-case scenario for our beloved child would be that he has learned of the genuine care and unfeigned love that the adult authority figure/s hold for him.
Yet this is not how the Renlund’s parable of the Uncooperative Brat on the Church© Boat© ends. Sadly, now that the ulterior-motivated ministering© effort under President© Monson has collapsed under it’s own weight, is this all you can come up with, Brethren©? , Now that not that many estranged members responded to the out-of-the-blue, in-your-face, come-back-now fake friend approach©, this is what the Church© is trying next?! Your solution is to compare genuinely concerned, legitimately doubtful members© of integrity and intelligence to spoiled toddlers?! “Patty-cake, taffy-pulling” brats at that?!
19:27
“With sadness, the fisherman© stops the boat© and helps you back in the ocean.”
(The audience laughed). Oh, I’m laughing too, in bitterness. HAHAHAHA. The Renlund’s attitude reminds me of a discipline tactic that my parents learned in order to control the 25+ toddlers in the Montessori daycare they bought in their late middle age and operated in their characteristically fastidious authoritarian manner. Since their new business surely would have closed down if they’d treated their enrollees in the same manner that they’d reared their own children, my parents had to find new tools for their Unrighteous Dominion Toolbox. The cherished wooden spoons was out, of course. Yes, it was imperative that these new tools left no visible bruises and wear so persuasive a guise that not one of those trusting parents would ever suspect that their cooperation at home with my parents’ program at school was anything but beneficial for their children. Attending the parenting class taught by my father and mother was required. One of their newfound tools that I came to despise the most was The Sad Act.
“Oh, I feel so sad that I have to _______. Isn’t it sad that you can’t ________.” They taught parents that this “pity” of “commiserating” with their child while still forcing them to do what they wanted the child to do was a better way of controlling them than getting angry. But do you know what that is? That is love, feigned.
Furthermore, WHAT RIGHT-MINDED FISHERMAN (i.e. prophet©, parent© or God) WOULD PUT A TODDLER BACK IN THE WATER JUST BECAUSE HE INSISTED ON IT?!
Perhaps Doubting Brat got a bump on his head, was too dehydrated, or merely too young and inexperienced to recognize the real danger awaiting him if he were to return to the water. But no… no… let’s “sadly” lower that damn annoying Doubting Brat back into the open sea to drown and get eaten by sharks. It won’t be my bad. Nope, not my bad. It’s not my circus, not my monkey.
Actually, it IS your circus, and it IS your monkey, Scrooge!
Remember? “MANKIND was my business!”
[ABC News Video: Kids Screamed as Mom Drove Van Into The Ocean, Rescuers Say]
I can smell Thomas S Monson spinning in his grave, he’s splattering at such a velocity to what the Renlunds have just taught on behalf of the Church© and in the name the Lord:
Amidst the storms of life, danger lurks; and men, like boats, find themselves stranded and facing destruction. Who will man the lifeboats, leaving behind the comforts of home and family, and go to the rescue?
President John Taylor cautioned us, “If you do not magnify your callings, God will hold you responsible for those whom you might have saved had you done your duty.”Brethren, our task is not insurmountable. We are on the Lord’s errand, and therefore we are entitled to the Lord’s help. But we must try. From the stage play Shenandoah comes the spoken line which inspires: “If we don’t try, then we don’t do; and if we don’t do, then why are we here?” – To The Rescue, April 2001 General Conference
Painting described by President Monson in “To The Rescue”
Brethren, in our priesthood callings I am confident we at times wonder if we are affecting the lives of others in a favorable manner. The instructor in the quorum who prepares so diligently, the home teachers who put aside their own convenience and carry a message to the families upon whom they call, and the quorum officers who reach out to rescue perhaps will never fully know the far-reaching influence of their service. This is particularly true of the faithful missionaries who day after day carry on in the service of the Master. Never complaining, ever serving, always sacrificing for the benefit of others, these noble servants deserve our undying gratitude and our fervent prayers.
The simple words from Ecclesiastes, or the Preacher, carry an assurance that brings comfort and inspires effort: “Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.” – Search and Rescue, April 1993 General Conference
Rescue described by Sister Sharon Eubank in October 2017 General Conference
“Well, consider this story as a parable© in which the Boat© represents the Church© and the Fisherman© represents Those Who Serve© in the Church©… Those Who Serve© in the Church©, though not perfect, are essential to help and encourage us along the Covenant Path©.”
Ruth, you must think we are really stupid if you think we didn’t pick up on the meaning of the boat© and fisherman© symbolism by this point.
I vehemently disagree with your statement about church© servants© being essential to an individual obtaining eternal life. My husband is the fourth generation of a northern Michigan family that only had themselves and scriptures© to keep them in the faith©. They would find someone in the Church© living in a major city like Detroit to do the necessary ordinance© of baptism©, then head back north to the homestead and just keep on living their religion©.
From Webster’s 1828 Dictionary: ESSEN’TIAL, adjective
Necessary to the constitution or existence of a thing.From Meriam-Webster Online Dictionary: ESSENTIAL, adjective
1. of , relating to, or constituting essence: inherent.
2a. Of the utmost importance: basic, indespensible, necessary
2b. Being a substance that is not synthesized by the body in a quantity sufficient for normal health and growth and that must be obtained from the diet.
CBN.com describes the elements of a religious cult
1. Invariably, a cult will put something else on equal footing with Christ.
2. Salvation comes only through the cult
3. Cults often center around a leader who is trying to gain power, money, or influence from manipulating people. A true leader who serves Jesus Christ has one goal, and that is to exalt and manifest Jesus.
4. A final mark of a cult is the unwillingness of the leaders to let the people grow up. A true shepherd will do everything he can to bring Christian people to maturity as quickly as he can. He will not seek to avoid necessary teaching, nor will he try to keep people from maturity. Many cults perpetuate spiritual dependence so that their followers lose the ability to make independent, rational decisions
When I first ran into this description a few years ago, I thought it did not describe our Church© at all. (Here’s proof.) What freaks me out now is that, upon rereading it, especially in the context of the craptastic cartoon I just endured, we© are starting to sound exactly like a cult©!
“He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.
Behold, the Lord hath forbidden this thing; wherefore, the Lord God hath given a commandment that all men should have charity, which charity is love. And except they should have charity they were nothing. Wherefore, if they should have charity they would not suffer the laborer in Zion to perish.” 2 Nephi 26:29-30 (24-31)
As for covenant© paths©, I think Brother George Pace has something rather interesting to say about that.
“It appears that it is not an unusual experience for us as members of the Church to be so thrilled and excited about finding and being on the path (belonging to the true church) that we take up homestead on the path! How awful it would be to come to judgement day as members of the Church, having been on the path for years, and discover we had never made the journey all the way to the tree – all the way to Christ! … Often members of the Church use their membership in the Church as they would a beautiful, powerful car… In all their frantic show-off efforts, they forget that a car has but one basic function – transportation… The challenge of using the gospel to come to Christ and of seeing the centrality of Christ in all things is a very real one, perhaps the greatest in the Church. We have too many people, both in and out of the Church who are exposed to the message of the Restoration who see only the [covenant] path and not the Tree.”
– What It Means To Know Christ, 1981, pg.15-17.
I don’t recall Lehi’s Dream having anything in it about the necessity of having somebody© else pushing or pulling you along the Iron Rod, dragging you up to the Tree, or picking the Fruit off of it for you in frustrated exasperation. Lehi could only walk himself along the path, reaching the Tree on his own. Lehi could only choose, by his own free will and choice, to remain with the Tree, inviting those he loved to come and partake as well, in the hope they would endeavor to do the same as he had.
Please, don’t insinuate yourself© between me and my Lord! No person, Servant of the Lord© or not, can work out my personal salvation for me, and they have absolutely no right to attempt a takeover or demand I surrender to them in that endeavor.
20:05
“What do the boat© and fisherman© teach us about the Church©? Do dents and peeling paint on the Church© change its ability to provide the authorized© saving and exalting ordinances© to help become like our Heavenly Father?”
Lady, we aren’t worried about dents and peeling paint! We’re worried about suspiciously rotten© foundational© floorboards and power-drunken sailors© who know very well that on the open sea, they are the law, MARTIAL LAW. Fishermen© who swagger around in the name of the Captain, deliciously glorying in the great day of their power; especially the fact that they© have absolute institutional© ecclesiastical© power© over anyone on board©. Smugly secure in the knowledge that their superiors© will almost always believe their word over that of Joe Schmo or Jane Doe over there swabbing the deck©. (Um… this whole naval theme… isn’t it Scientology much?)
Sister Renlund, I also think it is odd that you ended the second sentence listed above with the voice inflection of a statement rather than the questioning tone with which you began that sentence. I suspect that also was on purpose.
I desire the saving ordinances©, but not at the price of having to endure the constant, never-ending streams of unchecked© and therefore authorized© unrighteous dominion© that are part and parcel of the way our Church© is currently being run.
Victimized members© are counseled to go to their leaders© for help; for justice, only to learn the shocking reality that they are a thing of naught. Only after the sheep-clothed wolves© and false shepherds© have already had their way does the average lay member discover the horrible truth. Within the institutional© ecclesiastical© LDS© system you are actually without recourse or defense when things go wrong between yourself and a leader© of the Church©.
It is a well- known fact that in the legal arena , the Church© always indemnifies its officers©. It is a lesser-known fact that the Church© usually attacks the victims of its officers© in any formal court. Legal or ecclesiastical©, it matters not.
In fact, there is no known lawsuit, no externally adjudicated case where the Church© has spent money© defending an LDS© victim against an LDS© perpetrator. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints© ever and always defends perpetrators© and the LDS©clergy© who have so foolishly enabled them©. I am only 20 minutes into this verbal castration from the Renlunds, yet this stark, unapologetic, even leering official© attitude© of victim rejection, victim blaming and victim shaming is quite apparent already.
WHAT IS THE LEGAL AUTHORITY OF THE CAPTAIN OF A SHIP?
Stephen Haddock, LL.B.“The Captain is the ultimate authority on the ship and essentially nothing can happen on a ship without their approval.
For example, on either a civilian or military ship, the Captain can:
– Order someone restrained or locked up
– Has the authority to remove the authority of any member of the staff on a civilian ship.On a military ship, the Captain has the authority to issue orders and refusal to follow them is insubordination.
– Refuse to carry cargo and often has the authority to put off passengers.
– The captain decides where the ship goes and can override orders or bills of lading. For example, if a merchant ship captain feels it’s unsafe to go into a port, they can make for another port…In practice, a lot of this authority is delegated. For example, on a cruise ship, the purser is responsible for the accommodations, even though he reports directly to the captain. On a military ship, the executive officer is the person who usually gives the orders handed down by the captain.
THE CAPTAIN’S DUTY
By Captain Peter Squicciarini, 15 Jul 2014
“They say when in command, act in command. The term master goes back to Roman times and designates the captain as the ultimate authority and last word on the ship. That’s a lot of power to wield.
There’s not much that bothers me more than a master shirking his responsibilities. I once heard a master say after an incident that he wasn’t the one on watch, so it was the mate’s fault. Coming from the Navy where vast authority, great responsibility and inescapable accountability are the captain’s religion, it was difficult for me to tolerate a master of a towboat trying to tell me he wasn’t responsible. The master of a tug has the exact same responsibility as the captain of a 10,000-ton Navy cruiser. Size doesn’t matter if you are the captain.
Every so often it’s good to stop, reflect and renew your captain’s vows.
If you are the master, then three fundamental conditions must exist for you to be the captain. They are responsibility, authority and accountability. They’re a package deal. Without exception, all three are necessary to effectively command.
If you are held responsible for the boat, everyone who is onboard and the cargo, then you need the authority to do the job. The captain makes the final call and has the last word. His crew must do what he orders and the ship will go where he steers it. There aren’t many other positions in this world where you, the captain, are considered the “master after God.”
This tremendous authority makes you totally responsible. This responsibility is based on infinite trust and can’t be shared with anyone else. The mate can relieve you on watch, but he can’t relieve you of your responsibility. It’s all on your shoulders. If you can’t handle this, then you shouldn’t be the master.
This hit me my first night at sea as a ship’s captain. When I looked around, there wasn’t anybody I could hide behind to save my ship when in peril. It was a sobering and stark moment. How did you feel your first night underway as the captain?
What holds together the tradition of command is inescapable accountability. How many times do we hear people say they take full responsibility for some disaster and then nothing happens to them? No accountability. Without accountability there can be no trust from your crew, especially in times of danger. If they don’t trust you, you’re finished.
A stark example of what it means to be the captain is the collision between the USS Wasp and USS Hobson. Hobson was cut in half and in minutes the bow section sank with 176 of Hobson’s crew. Most were asleep in their bunks and never had a chance. The accountability for this accident was brutally written about in an article, “Hobson’s Choice.” The last several paragraphs nail it. The piece also has a few other things to say about the burden of command. Renew your captain’s vows today. Sail Safe!”
20:18
“If the fisherman© must hold on to the rudder with both hands to keep the boat© on course, does that negate his© and the boat’s© ability to get us safely and reliably where we want to go?”
(Once again, Ruth, you began this sentence as a question but ended it as a statement. Is this some sort of Sith-Lord mind trick?)
Wait. You’re saying that Brat Boy is upset that the fisherman© has to hold on with both hands? But you said earlier that sometimes the fisherman© DIDN’T hold on to the rudder (see 18:23). This doesn’t make sense. Which is it, Renlunds?
Hahaha… this is so typical of what you get with leaders© constantly changing their stories. Over and over again I have encountered this attitude of a leader© changing the conditions you have to meet to something new after you’ve obediently met every requirement that they© originally asked of you. All so that you still stay under their© thumb. What a power-trip that must be, because I have seen so many men© really enjoying it; probably in part because they know there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it. It’s happened to me repeatedly and as recently as last month.
Which begs my next question of the Renlunds: With this switch-a-roo about the rudder details, are you seriously attempting to GASLIGHT me?!
RUD’DER, noun [The oar was the first rudder used by man, and is still the instrument of steering certain boats.]
1. In navigation, the instrument by which a ship is steered; that part of the helm which consists of a piece of timber, broad at the bottom, which enters the water and is attached to the stern-post by hinges, on which it turns. This timber is managed by means of the tiller or wheel.
2. That which guides or governs the course.
What are you saying then? That because Church-authorized© Church Servants© firmly take control© of their© dominions/governments (the rudder), the Church© and the Servant© are able to “safely and reliably” get us back to where? God? Really? Unrighteous dominion does that?
You’re also presuming that the destination of The Brat and the destination of the Fisherman© are the same. What if they’re not? What if one© of them is a demanding and deceiving hypocrite©? Yes, even a BRAT?! (Hey, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander…)
What you’re also asserting, Sister Renlund is that, in reality, any questioning by The Brat of the Church-Authorized© Servant’s© management© of the rudder negates nothing, because The Brat’s opinion means nothing and his power within the system© is non-existent. He ought to remain passive and trust in the Boat© and the Servant©. Trust in their Church-Authorized© ability© to wield dominion© (steer with the rudder). The Brat must realize that the scepter© of the rudder is not his. (And never will be, as long as he keeps being such a naughty boy.) If that is what you are saying the view of the Brethren© is, then yes, I would agree.
However, that is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Lord said,
Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
D&C 10:67-68
So symbolically, then, I am the Church. If the Church is likened unto a boat, then I am also the Boat. Yes that very same Boat that is said to be carrying fishers of men, or bearing up the servants of God. And if I am a Boat, then I have been created to float from the very beginning. And if I can naturally float, then I must have been created to float on something. How about Living Water?
On my Boat I would also suppose that the rudder, which is the steering and governing authority, must be operated by a Servant or servants.
That’s good, because the scriptures say that when I am serving the Lord or his children, I am also the Servant.
And behold, I tell you these things that ye may learn wisdom; that ye may learn that when ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God.
– Mosiah 2:17
This is a sacred symbiosis of mutualism. One of my favorite descriptors of this covenant brotherhood comes from the Quakers: “Thee lift me, and me lift thee, and we’ll ascend together.” I am the Boat and I am the Servant. You can be the Boat and you can be the Servant.
If every Boat© among the Boats© is truly serving in the name of the Lord, and
every Servant© among the Servants© is truly serving in the name of the Lord,
then everything is perfect. But in this telestial sphere, that does not happen.
The Renlund’s parable© denies this reality.
Instead, they seem to be teaching that there is somehow a separate, third role for the general membership©.
A role of surrendering their Boat to be sailed by any Servant© the Brethren© authorize©, irregardless of that servant’s actual level of devotion to Christ.
A role of surrendering their position as Servant of God to becoming an Underservant© in a hierarchy of Officers© on the Boat© that the Brethren© authorize©. A role of not daring to question any alarming unChristlike characteristic of any other officer©, especially those© in command© over them; a role of not daring to ever buck the dictates© of High Commanding Officers© on the Boat© of the Brethren© – past, present or future – no matter what.
20:30
“You do not have to be an ordained seer© like my husband to know that slipping back into the water instead of staying in the boat© is risky.“
AHA! An ordained©seer© like your husband©? Here you seem assert his position© as the source of his authority. There are only 15© prophet-seer-revelaters© right now.
Seership: maybe that’s what the eyeballs rolling around on the boat floor symbolize.
So what you’re saying is, “Even though my husband© has a Divine Superpower© that will always make him smarter© than you, even YOU, Brat, can’t be THAT dumb. Surely you can’t be so imbecilic that you’d take such an obviously suicidal risk.”
((cue scary music, “Dun, Dun, DUNNNNNNN!)))
Well, maybe the eyeballs rolling around on the boat© floor© are supposed to be mine! Maybe what they symbolize is the assertion© that the seer© has a right© to take them away and keep them underfoot. I mean, look at them, that set of helpless human orbs, groveling there, running to and fro, helplessly bumping and bumbling about like bewildered billiard balls with every lumbering lurch of that boat© upon the sea. Eyeballs, schmyballs. After all, with an ordained seer© on board©, I don’t need them anymore, right?
What a choice of descriptive phrase, Ruth. Really? Slipping back into the water? Once again, with a slight change of syntax, Ruth removes the fisherman from the scene and places all the blame on Doubting Brat. Slipping back into the water is a vacation-like phrase, evoking what one person does, say, poolside or with a hot tub. “Slipping back” brings up further scriptural imagery, such as the dog returning BACK to it’s vomit or the pig returning BACK to the mire. The reality is that when any representative© of the Church© comes to that point of action where he “helps” you back into the water, it’s more like you are getting walked off the plank!!
And what’s the alternative? When any disciple of Christ sees sufficient proof in his surroundings or among his comrades to doubt the integrity of that Boat© or the discipleship of it’s Servant©, they are putting themselves at risk by insisting upon integrity across the board©. They are putting themselves at risk by refusing to blindly obey direct© orders© without ascertaining for themselves that these directives© do indeed come from the Lord himself.
Slipping back into the water is risky?! Risky with whom, Ruth? Risky with that individual’s relationship with The Lord or with these Authorized© Boats© and Servants©?
The scriptures teach that many© are called but few are chosen, but the leaders© of the current Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints© increasingly seem to assert, (and with ever-greater and more growling menace), that the Called© are the Chosen. Chosen already, always and forever, in continual perpetuity, amen. Otherwise why would they threaten to throw you overboard for noncompliance with that which is not of the Lord?
And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil, and is not built upon my rock; but he buildeth upon a sandy foundation, and the gates of hell stand open to receive such when the floods come and the winds beat upon them. 3 Nephi 11:38-40
If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. – John 12:26
How do I discern who is truly a Servant of the Lord? He who is as a little child, across the board. Submissive, meek, tender, full of love… you know what it says in Mosiah 18.
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. – Matthew 23:8-11
20:38
“Yet, when we lose sight of the big picture, the small dents© and peeling paint can loom large in our minds.” (Concluded with a feigned “Shucks, how sad for you” bummer face that makes me want to slap her and thereby fix it into a genuine sad face.)
Aha… so the big picture that we lose sight of is… what? The fact that I, Sir Doubting Brat, would like to make it to shore? Alive?
Another abuser behavior is called minimizing. “Minimizing means downplaying the severity and effects of one’s own abusive behavior” At first, Attorney Renlund called the gaps “dents”, and now she’s calling the dents “small”. What will she describe them as next? Pin pricks?
So your minimizing message is that what should really loom large for me is THE Boat© and THE Servant©. Why? Because this Authorized©Boat© and its Authorized©Servant© are my only hope. Yes, that I would be a fool to ignore what is right before my eyes in the animated depiction of DOOM. Your message is that no other manned boat can save me. Your message is that even if I wanted a different boat, it can’t possibly come along in time to save me before the ravenous sharks and oncoming lightening storm do me in. It’s your choice whether you live or die, Doubting Brat. For salvation from the certain death, the only choice that you, Doubting Brat, have is this Boat©, and this Captain©.
So is what you’re REALLY saying is… that even though I don’t feel safe on the boat©, it’s better to be safe and silent and alive… than emotionally honest, valiantly self-advocating… and dead?!
“A pious man explained to his followers: ‘It is evil to take lives and noble to save them. Each day I pledge to save a hundred lives. I drop my net in the lake and scoop out a hundred fishes. I place the fishes on the bank, where they flop and twirl. “Don’t be scared,” I tell those fishes. “I am saving you from drowning.” Soon enough, the fishes grow calm and lie still. Yet, sad to say, I am always too late. The fishes expire. And because it is evil to waste anything, I take those dead fishes to market and I sell them for a good price. With the money I receive, I buy more nets so I can save more fishes.”
―
20:48
“Every member needs his or her own witness of the truthfulness of the Restored Church©.“
Translation: Every member needs his or her own witness that this boat© and this fisherman© is the best you’re ever going to get. I guess I’ll just forget Royal Caribbean, then.
Because, you know, even if I DID get on to a luxury cruiser©, I would still be in danger of making an error. Doh! Stupid me. Yes, I might make a mistake like that guy mentioned in another General Authority© talk by Dieter F Uchtdorf (and I believe Uchtdorf was quoting Boyd K Packer.) You know the story: I’d be the one down in the cabin who just ate out of her suitcase instead of realizing that the cost of my voyage included meals and activities was already covered. Yup, the moral of that story is that if ever you get aboard the luxury version of the Ship Zion©, watch out! You might be in terrible danger of relying upon your own merits; yes, of being an Atonement Denier.
So… what was it for The Doubting Brat… a bait and switch? Was he waiting in the water for his cruise ship Zion© to come to the rescue – Perrier, chocolate croissants and all – only to end up with this measly old rowboat© and the not-so-cuddly curmudgeon©? Or had it© already sunk?
20:55
“Without a true conversion, including a mighty change of heart…”
My, my, that’s a mighty change of actuality… going from all the glossy sales brochure promises about a cruise liner© to this reality of an old fishing dingy©.
“…you may begin to focus on the metaphorical soda crackers and chipped paint.”
Metaphorical soda crackers and chipped paint, eh? I learned in seminary© that if you don’t explain the symbolism, I’m not responsible. Oh, but you didn’t. You just gave a superior little smirk (21:03). But here, I’ll help you with that one, anyway.
Soda crackers and stale water would represent the bread and water of the Sacrament©. According to you, it’s fall from acceptation occurs only as quickly as The Brat comes to grips with his actual reality. When he was afraid and desperate, he was willing to consume anything, which, apparently, was just fine with you.
Furthermore, is it The Doubting Brat’s fault that the fisherman© thinks so little of that ordinance© that he would not ensure that both the emblems and the officiator© are as fresh and clean, as worthy of receipt, as pure they can possibly can be? I am sure that your argument is that The Brat is rejecting Christ by rejecting the Fisherman’s© humble offering. My argument in return is that scriptural accounts teach that even the Lord whom we worship looketh on the heart and not on the outward man. Why is it a crime for a disciple of Christ to judge righteous judgement as he bases his evaluation on the same standards that his Master does?
Here’s another thought. It is more common to hear about prisoners, not passengers, being fed hard bread and fetid water.
As for the chipped paint… are you admitting that the Church© has neglected to keep the S.S. Sepulcher properly whitewashed lately?
Or is the symbol of the paint the blood of Christ? After all, are we not all covered by the blood of the Lord’s Atonement? Then why is it chipped and why is it bad that The Brat noticed it was chipped?
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgive, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Psalm 32:1-2
Another abuser tactic is being illustrated here: emotional invalidation. What you’re saying is that you don’t really believe The Doubting Brat was in that much danger when the rowboat© picked him up. I mean, come on… you’re accusing him of being petty and proud… even while admitting, by your own account, that nothing was done by your Authorized©Servant© to ascertain if The Brat was in a state of shock, starvation, hypothermia, heat stroke, dehydration, etc. Screw the paint! Screw holding on to the rudder! If there’s no Good Samaritan on board to show the pure love of Christ to our harried, hot, hurt and hangry Brat, why does anything else matter?
Yes, now that I have thought about it a few moments more, if there is a symbol to be found in the chipped paint, then it can only be the blood of Christ. How dare you accuse those with honest questions and serious doubts of being faultfinders who are actually questioning the efficacy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ! That has absolutely NOTHING to do with YOU, Brother and Sister Renlund! EVERYBODY on this boat© is riding on it; so are all mankind! And YOU don’t OWN it! Neither does the Church© that you’re representing. That Authority who deems a just man has been made perfect in the blood of the Lamb is The Lamb of God himself. Nobody else.
(Does anybody else who watched this feel, like, this undercurrent of anger? Like these words are being spit out through smilingly bared teeth?)
20:10
“President© Russell M Nelson in April Conference© 2018 said, ‘You don’t have to wonder about what is true. You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust.”
Look into my eyes… deep into my eyes… yes… yes… Repeat after me: I don’t have to wonder about what is true. I do not have to wonder whom I can safely trust.Trust in me-e-e-e-e, just in me-e-e-e-e, Shut your eyes, Trust in me-e-e-e…
21:29
“Regardless of what others may say or do, nobody can ever take away a witness born to your mind and heart about what is true.”
No, no, they can’t take that away from me-e-e-e-e.
So, then Elder Renlund starts to talk, but I keep watching her face. Man… I learned to read the body language of my mother, my first abuser, very very closely as a child – in order to survive in that hell – and if my Olympically-trained Toddler-Super-Senses are serving me correctly, I don’t have to be an ordained seer to know that this woman is nursing an undisclosed offense while holding back the castigation that she’d really like to utter. She is seething with frustration, pride, condemnation, anger, and yes, even hatred. Or I’m not my mother’s daughter.
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
– Proverbs 8:13
21:46-22:35
Ohhhhh… so… the correct way to hogtie yourself to the boat© is to earn all the testimony© badges© for your sash© in this order:
Attend My Meetings© Badge©,
Obey Your Leader© Badge©,
Read the Book of Mormon Badge©,
Pray about the Book of Mormon Badge©,
God Affirmed the Truth of the Book of Mormon Badge©,
Learn How to Repent© Badge©…
and THEN earn the Come to a Knowledge of Your Redeemer Badge©.
Hmm. I must have done it out of order. So did Joseph Smith, Paul, and Alma the Younger.
22:38
“I began a process of belief. The process of being on the covenant path©”
I do not like this “covenant path©” phrase. Maybe they beat the “tender mercy©” phrase into so much of a dead horse that they had to come up with this new ad slogan.
There is MUCH more to the living the Gospel of Jesus Christ than checking off a list of six required© ordinances© along a carefully controlled and manicured trail©. That’s just six events in a very long journey. Real, daily, sincere and unfeigned obedience to the laws of the Lord is also required, and there are 365 of those events every year.
22:54
“It was in Yutibori that I learned to repent. It was in Yutibori that I came to a knowledge of my Redeemer”
Good for you. It was in Kalamazoo that I learned to repent. It was in Portage that I came to a knowledge of the love of my Redeemer.
I can’t help feeling, though, that the inference of your words is that The Brat has not learned to repent and does not have a knowledge of his Redeemer. Otherwise he would not be rocking the your boat©.
22:57
“It was in Yutibori that I began looking up to individuals who magnified their callings and who worked hard to build up the Kingdom of God.”
Now that you’ve earned the 7 required badges© on for my Covenant Pathway© sash, you need to earn your beads. Yes, you need to start threading up your personally selected collection of church© leaders© to idolize. I see.
Elder Renlund, this is part of the huge problem in the Church©! It is a behavior and belief system which grooms believers for victimization. And yet it keeps being taught! Our Lord only had one hero: his Father. Shouldn’t we also?
“President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel–said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church–that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls–applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints–said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall–that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds, in consequence of neglecting the duties devolving upon themselves.”
– Joseph Smith, History of the Church 5:19. See also Mark 9:42–46, JST.“I have said to the Latter-day Saints, many and many a time, and I say to them now, live your religion, that the Spirit of God may be within you like a well of water springing up to everlasting life. Suppose I were to give way to the spirit of the enemy and leave the spirit of the Gospel, then, if you were not prepared to judge between the voice of the Good Shepherd and the voice of the stranger, I could lead you to ruin. Be prepared that you may know the voice when it comes through the servants of God, then you can declare for yourselves. ‘This is the word of the Lord.’ My caution and counsel to the Latter-day Saints, and to all the inhabitants of the earth is—Live so that you will know truth from error.I say to you . . . brethren and sisters, be faithful, live so that the Spirit of the Lord will abide within you, then you can judge for yourselves. I have often said to the Latter-day Saints—“Live so that you will know whether I teach you truth or not.” Suppose you are careless and unconcerned, and give way to the spirit of the world, and I am led, likewise, to preach the things of this world and to accept things that are not of God, how easy it would be for me to lead you astray! But I say to you, live so that you will know for yourselves whether I tell the truth or not.”
– Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses. Vol. 18. 248. June 23, 1874
Let me also get THIS straight: defining what the kingdom of God is:
Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. – Mark 10:14, Mosiah 3:18
And the scribe said unto [Jesus], Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. – Mark 12:32-34
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. – John 3:5
For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. – Luke 17:21
I say, in the name of the Lord, that the kingdom of God was set up on the earth from the days of Adam to the present time, whenever there has been a righteous man on earth unto whom God revealed His word and gave power and authority to administer in His name. And where there is a priest of God—a minister who has power and authority from God to [righteously!] administer in the ordinances of the gospel and officiate in the priesthood of God—there is the kingdom of God.- Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
It is impossible for them who trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God; but he who forsaketh the things which are of this world, it is possible with God that he should enter in. – JST Luke 18:27
Therefore, the Kingdom of God can exist where there is just one baptized man who submits like a child to Heavenly Father, who has been properly ordained, by the authority of the Priesthood of God. Upon the condition of exercising righteous dominion, he lovingly shepherds his fellow-servants and humbly administers on behalf of the Lord in the ordinances of the Gospel. Sounds good to me.
“A Gardner is all I am
A simple and honest man
I reap and sow
I help things grow
And do the best I can
I can not save you, it’s true
But I am bringing good news!
An Holy One will surely come
To do what I can’t do.”
– lyrics from “I Help Things Grow”,
The Garden: An Allegorical Oratorio
by Bryce Neubert and Michael McLean
23:10
“Where did you come to a knowledge of your Redeemer?…This knowledge and these feelings are the beginning of faith.”
Will she ever stop speaking to us in such a condescending tone of patronizing superiority? What even gives her the right or authority to ask that question which she asks it in a way that makes you feel like she doesn’t think you’ve actually come to that knowledge… and doubts you ever will, Doubting Brat.
Wait, what? If you’ve come to a KNOWLEDGE of your Redeemer, then this contradicts what the Book of Mormon teaches in Alma 32:27-31. And wouldn’t coming to a KNOWLEDGE of your Redeemer be something a bit more like D&C 93:1, Moses 1:2, JSH 1:17 ???
Yes, once again, Sister Renlund,
You keep using that [phrase, “knowledge of your Redeemer.”] I do not think it means what you think it means. – The Princess Bride, paraphrased
She also infers by the logic of her line of commentary about faith that if you have lost faith in the Church© or its Leaders©, you have lost faith in Jesus Christ. This is not true.
23:27
“Faith is just not whimsically wanting something to be true and fancifully convincing yourself it is”, she said with a sneer in her voice.
Whimsically? Fancifully? What are you saying with these adjectives? And with your condescending tone that says, “Dummy”. Are you saying that it’s your opinion that the bratty doubters are “weak” because they believe that the only reason they’ve swallowed your blue pill is because they deliberately chose to delude themselves? That all they really ever had in the first place was mere whimsy and fancy rather than a real testimony? Wow. If that’s not a triple-layer-horse-shit sundae of victim-blaming with whipped cream and a cherry on top, I don’t know what is.
23:42
“Faith must be centered in Jesus Christ to lead a person to salvation.”
Agreed. Gah! Finally! Now that point really didn’t hurt to concede, did it? But did you catch that little upward eyebrow sneer of superiority, as she drew breath after saying so 23:46-48)? Translation: She’s self-assured that she’s already one of those persons in salvation. After all, as an apostle©’s wife, she’s very likely received the Calling and Election© ordinance© in the grand vicarious-glory-sharing experience of riding on his coattails©.
I’ve got news for you, Ruth.
You keep using that word [salvation]. I do not think it means what you think it means. – The Princess Bride, paraphrased
According to the Gospel Topics© section on lds.org©, there are not one but six different meanings for or types of salvation. Since she didn’t qualify her declaration, Attorney Renlund is wrong. Physical salvation of the body does not require faith in Jesus Christ in this life.
23:49
“Faith is kindled by hearing the gospel taught by Authorized© Teachers© sent by God”
Aha. Now we get to the meat of it. Now it isn’t enough anymore to have authorized priesthood©, authorized garments©, authorized church materials©. Now we have to have authorized teachers©.
She also pulls this tactic, again, of conflating a teacher© authorized by the Church© with a teacher sent by God. Just because a man is called by the Church© doesn’t mean he is chosen by God. And why might an Authorized Teacher© not actually be chosen by God?
Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and [they]aspire to the honors of men… [so that they] undertake to cover [their] sins, or to gratify [their] pride, [their] vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness. – D&C 121: 35, 37
Faith is not kindled by hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Faith is kindled by believing it.
You can scold, shame, blame, guilt, drag and drive a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. Especially not if you speak to it in the scolding, imperious tone that you’re using on us right now. We hear you, all right. We hear that you don’t love us. Unless it is parched desperately enough to risk it, most sensitive souls will not trust that the water is safe to drink when it is introduced with harshness like that, and they will spit it out because it tastes of the bitterness it has mingled with in you.
23:54
“Miracles do not produce faith but strong faith is developed by obedience to the Gospel© of Jesus Christ.”
Tell that to Alma the Younger who was going about to destroy the church.While it was his father’s faith and prayers that sent the miracle of an angel of the Lord’s admonition to his son, in no way was the event that occurred to Alma Jr a reward for HIS own personal obedience or righteousness. That miracle was the catalyst that quickened up the internal factory of Alma the Younger’s own production of faith (Alma 36:18-21).
Want to rinse and repeat, honey? One word. Paul. (Acts 26:13-19)
Rinse and repeat: The mother and father of Lamoni with their court (Alma 22:15-23)
Rinse and repeat: Zeezrom (Alma 15:3-11)
Rinse and repeat: Enos (Enos 1:3-8)
Psst… (in my quietest inside voice, speaking slowly so you can understand): That’s why it’s called the miracle of forgiveness.
We love him because he first loved us.
– 1 John 4:19, Hymn 193Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
– Jesus, (John 12:24)Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:…that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations
– Luke 24:46-47And as sure as the Lord liveth, so sure as many as believed, or as many as were brought to the knowledge of the truth, through the preaching of Ammon and his brethren, according to the spirit of revelation and of prophecy, and the power of God working miracles in them—yea, I say unto you, as the Lord liveth, as many of the Lamanites as believed in their preaching, and were converted unto the Lord, never did fall away.
– Alma 23:13
23:59
“Faith comes by righteousness.”
Really? According to Alma 32, individual obedience and righteousness nurture, or feed individual faith… keep it alive… but it doesn’t necessarily kindle or conceive it.
And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster box of ointment… Wherefore [Jesus said] unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little… And he said to the woman, Thy faith [in me] hath saved thee; go in peace.
– Luke 7:37, 47, 50Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
– John 4:29 (see also 16-19 for her sinner status)
Two witnesses from our Lord himself testify that You. Are. Wrong.
24:03
“Faith does not come from demanding signs from God…”
Wow. I mean, wow. These two must think the doubters are really, really, spiritually immature. And stupid. And dumb. So, again, why the tone of impatience and condescension? Yes, if you think the doubting folks are THAT retarded, I ask you again, WHY do you think it’s okay to put Ruprecht in the water and row off away from him while he screams, “Oklahoma! Oklahoma! Oklahoma!” He just wanted to get back home like you did. (Forgive my allusion to Steve Martin. I couldn’t resist.)
24:07
“But [faith comes by] by obeying. And following His commandments.”
Please refer back to my 23:59 comments. I got the distinct impression that she meant obeying your LDS© Church© Leaders©. Brother and Sister Renlund, I solemnly testify that blindly following a called Authorized© Leader© who has not actually been chosen by God is faith destroying; faith decimating!
Personal obedience and righteousness. Personal obedience and righteousness. That’s the drum roll beat. Why is she saying this? She is suggesting that if you doubt, you must be disobedient and wicked. Because she’s established by her unauthorized apostolic-by-association declarations that only the obedient and righteous possess faith? As I have proven, this is an ugly lie.
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
– Jesus Christ. Luke 18:9-14.
I sure do like the Lord’s parables better than those by Renlund’s© Intellectual Reserve©.
24:16
“[Individual] faith© is the key that unlocks God’s mercy.”
Um… isn’t the Atonement of Jesus Christ the Key that unlocks God’s mercy?
Faith in Jesus Christ would be the individual’s action of using the Key, especially since another name for Jesus Christ is The Door of the Sheep (John 10:7).
“Stay here in my garden where Love grows free and wild.
Come to my Garden, come sweet child!”
24:20
“A person needs to decide that he or she wants to have faith, and then act in faith before faith can grow.”
Correction: A person needs to decide that he or she wants to have faith in Jesus Christ and then act in faith in Jesus Christ before faith in Jesus Christ can grow. This promise is always true of Jesus Christ. And only faith in Jesus Christ.
Guess what? Instead of judging and condemning them, a Church© needs to decide that it wants to have faith in the testimony of those in its ranks who doubt because they feel deceived and disenfranchised, and then act in faith in goodness, honesty and sincere hearts of the Doubting Brats before the Church©’s faith in the Doubting Brats can grow.
25:10
“The Book of Mormon promise that my husband followed as an 11 year old.”
Hmm. Kind of an odd possessiveness in the way she said that. If it had been me, I would have used his first name. What I think I am hearing is her pride and sense of superiority derived from the fact that her husband is an apostle©. That is confirmed to me by the way she stressed 11 year old. As if she’s saying, “Too bad, you Doubting Brats still haven’t grown to the point that my husband already had as a child!”
25:15
Why are we reviewing the Moroni 10:4 promise here as if nobody in the audience hadn’t already heard it a billion times before? And again spoken at us with such condescension? The implication is, “Hey, stupid, you’re not even asking it right. Da-da, goo-goo, I guess you’re too little to wear big boy pants. Back to diapers and 7:00 bedtime for you!”
I thought you asserted that”Faith is kindled by hearing the gospel taught by Authorized Teachers© sent by God (23:49).” Then why isn’t everyone in that room singing and shouting with the spirit of God like a fire burning?
Could it be that Moroni 10:4 isn’t the gospel? No.
Could it be that they have not heard it enough? Heck no!
Could it be that you’re not an Authorized Teacher©? No.
Could it be that you were not sent by God? D&C 9:5; 121:37-44
25:39
“Could these things not be true is a question that presumes it is true.”
Let’s test that.
Truth statement 1: The MTC© is a safe place for YSA men and women because it is presided over by Authorized Leaders©.
Truth statement 2: The Church© always protects the righteous and punishes the wicked within its own ranks.
Truth: McKenna Denson.
Question: (In a shocked tone)
Could these things not be true?! (As in, Truth Statements 1 and 2)
Answer: Yes, these things are not true!
Admit it: I got a mic drop with that one.
25:44
“Aren’t we going to drive from Honolulu to the north shore?”
*FIRST ANSWER: No, I’m sorry, Sister Renlund, we aren’t going to. I’m over here on the mainland.
* SECOND ANSWER: That depends on what north shore you’re talking about. Is it the one in Oahu because if it’s anywhere else, we can’t drive there because Oahu is an island, silly! Our drive also depends on how soon I can get a flight to the Islands to join you. I assume you already have a rental car, right?
* THIRD ANSWER: Yes, in your dreams!
26:05
“Couldn’t these things not be false leads to doubt, and doubt never leads to faith.”
Not + false = a double negative, something which everybody knows is a grammatical English no-no because it’s so confusing, and because they cancel each other out. For example, “He did not have no food = Not having no food = He did have food.”
This woman, in some desperate attempt to wow us with stunning feats of mental gymnastics, is using a TRIPLE NEGATIVE in this sentence: 1. Could not, 2. not, and 3. false.
Unless you DENY the truth,
a triple negative of a TRUTH equals a NEGATIVE, you tricky witch!
TRUTH STATEMENT, in triple negative:
Couldn’t the maternal parentage of my newborn not be false?
Could not the maternal parentage on my newborn not be false?
Could the maternal parentage of my newborn be false?
Yes (if a woman denies her own experience of giving birth) = denial of the truth
No (if she accepts her experience as bonafide). = acceptance of the truth
GOSPEL TRUTH STATEMENT, in triple negative:
Couldn’t the First Vision© not be false?
Could not the First Vision© not be false?
Could the First Vision© be false?
Yes (if you reject Joseph’s testimony that he really saw God) = denial of the gospel truth
No (if I accept the testimony of Joseph as bonafide) = acceptance of gospel truth
Unless you DENY the truth,
a triple negative of a FALSEHOOD is a quadruple negative, and always equals a POSITIVE
FALSE STATEMENT, in triple negative:
Couldn’t this pyrite not be false gold?
Could not this pyrite not be false gold?
Could this pyrite be false gold?
Yes = Acceptance of the ultimate truth
No = Denial of the truth
GOSPEL FALSEHOOD, in triple negative:
Couldn’t doctrine-justified racism in the Church© not be false?
Could not doctrine-justified racism in the Church© not be false?
Could doctrine-justified racism in the Church© be false?
Yes = Acceptance of the ultimate truth
No = Denial of the truth
What an incorrect, pointless, waste-of-time grammar lesson this talk is. One that feels as if it’s deliberately MEANT to confuse. If were a college student who wanted an English lecture or an English teacher, my first thought certainly wouldn’t have been to come to this broadcast to find one. Her pinch-lipped diatribe of hair-splitting semantics is hardly uplifting or edifying.
26:11-27:44
Steven, Goofus Steven, thou art careful and troubled about many things: but one thing is needful: and Gallant hath chosen experts©, materials© and sources© authorized and correlated by Intellectual Reserve©, which shall not be taken away from him.
27:44
“Sadly, Steven had chosen to be a perpetual doubter!” (as she pulls another feigned face)
Sadly, Steven had chosen to take the red pill. Labeled James 1:4. And a couple other red pills. Like using logic; proving all things (1 Thes 5:21); exploring for himself whether these issues were hidden things of darkness or spiritual wickedness by bringing them to the light of inquiry (D&C 123:13, Eph 6:12); investigating why so much of Church© History© was covered up or whitewashed away from the general knowledge of membership (John 3:20-21); and re-evaluating his loyalty to the Church© and it’s profession of authority© from God in the face of this new evidence (Matthew 7:21-23, 18-20; Mark 9:42–46, JST.; 2 Nephi 28:9).
Why is Elder© Renlund making a straw man out of Steven? That is a form of lying (2 Ne 9:34). Why is this apostle© of the Lord and his “exemplary” wife practicing backbiting? (Backbiting is the act of slandering the absent). Did he get pseudonym-Steven’s permission to talk about him like this and portray his experience in a video?
“The straw man is a fallacy in which an opponent’s argument is overstated or misrepresented in order to be more easily attacked or refuted. The technique often takes quotes out of context or, more often, incorrectly paraphrases or summarizes an opponent’s position. Then after “defeating” the position, the attacker claims to have beaten the real thing.” – Richard Nordquist.
And again I say unto you, is there one among you that doth make a mock of his brother, or that heapeth upon him persecutions?Wo unto such an one, for he is not prepared, and the time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved! – Alma 5:30-31
I don’t believe your “sadness”, Sister Renlund. I don’t believe it at all. Just like my mother, when you’re angry and disgusted with your audience, you’re not a good actress. Feigning your love and concern for individuals you’re standing there “despitefully using and persecuting” just insults my intelligence and offends my spirit.
False face must hide what the false heart doth know. – Shakespeare, Macbeth.
“Both anger and sadness are fear in disguise. Nicely spotted, fear is also disguised as compassion, judgment, hope, depression, opinions, thoughts and all feelings. Fear is the opposite of Love.
Love is the senses, consciousness, trust, understanding, acceptance, knowing and logic. Love is action, reaction, cause, effect and results in more love. Fear is NOT any of those things.
What exists, is Love OR fear. People choose one or the other, and are always doing one or the other; never both at the same time. Fear is disguised as everything else. That isn’t Love.”
– Mimi Mendoza
Elder© and Sister Renlund, Brethren© of the Church©, Steven didn’t make the holes. They’re there. They’re there because actual Church© History©, actual action by Priesthood-holding© leaders© put them there.Why is Steven being held at fault for noticing them and being concerned? It’s like condemning someone for having trypophobia in the illogical belief that they can be forced to change.
Here’s some other illogical beliefs:
1.)Thinking that that contentiously attacking, scolding and shaming those who threaten you will cause that mighty change of heart within them.
2.) Believing that if somebody is having difficulty with the Church© and it’s Leaders© is automatically indicative that they’re struggling with their testimony of Jesus Christ.
3.) Supposing that your harsh condemnation and judgement will somehow magically turn them back to Christ because of some desire they’re still supposed to harbor for unity and oneness with you despite your action of just having publicly and self-righteously expressed your uncharitable feelings for them.
4.) And lest you “turn and rend me again” for labeling your poisoned pearls for what they really are, here’s a truth reminder:
27:51
“For him, doubting pleased him more than knowing, and he was digging up in doubt what he had planted in faith.”
Come on, baby, make it hurt so good! That’s your Straw Man victory statement? Seriously? You assert that Steven enjoyed having the rug ripped out from under him by learning new, concerning information that only compounded quiet sorrows and concerns long hidden in his heart (Hymn 129)? You assert that Steven’s skin wasn’t crawling at the sudden sight of all unexpected and grotesque holes in the fabric of his faith?
Are honest truth-seekers like Joseph Smith (JS-H 1:18-19) and Martin Luther just doubt addicts? Were they ecclesiastical masochists, then?
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hathtorment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
– 1 John 4:18
27:52
“He was digging up in doubt what he had planted in faith.”
What are we supposed to have faith in? Faith in Jesus Christ.
What examples are they using?
Faith that the Church© was correct to withhold the Priesthood© from Blacks?
Faith that the Church© was correct to have practiced polygamy©?
He already had that. I already had that. Even though you, Church©, is gaslighting about it now, I was taught that blue pill of racism by the leaders YOU authorized to teach me, Church©!
It just can’t be that what Sister Renlund is actually saying here is that the Church© was right to do these things! Right? But when you analyze the context of the statement, you can only draw that conclusion. She has faith© that the Church© was, is and will always be right to do whatever it did, does or will do. So, even if you can no more than desire to believe on her words, have faith© that this crap© is true, Scarecrow Steven! (If you even exist in real life. If you do, boy, would I like to hear your thoughts about how you were characterized in this address.)
Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down: – Amos 9:2
And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end. – 1 Nephi 14:3
Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him. – Isaiah 51:1-2
YES, REALLY, THE PIT, SYMBOL OF YOUR FAITHFUL ANCESTOR SARAH, IS GOOD.
FURTHERMORE, as the gardener of your own soul, you have every right to determine what can grow in your garden, and what should not. Good seeds bring forth good fruit. Good branches bring forth good fruit, too. You have every right to clear out those branches which have stopped giving good fruit and now only produce the bitter.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
– Genesis 1:12
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
– Matt 7:15-20
And as they begin to grow ye shall clear away the branches which bring forth bitter fruit, according to the strength of the good and the size thereof; and ye shall not clear away the bad thereof all at once, lest the roots thereof should be too strong for the graft, and the graft thereof shall perish, and I lose the trees of my vineyard.
– Jacob 5:65
28:12
“He focused on the dents in the boat©, instead of on the capability of the boat© to lead him to the blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ”
The subjugation of and discrimination against an entire group of people based on skin color? Rampant December-May marriages and decades of misogyny justified in the name of God? You call these dents?!
For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.
Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?
– Jeremiah 8:21-22
The capability to do what, again, Ruth? Lead him to blessings of the Atonement? What’s that? The capability to enable racists and protect sexual predators? The capability of giving them the “blessing” of getting to the Celestial Kingdom© quicker than they could have without the Boat©?! The blessing of greeting their victims at the Pearly Gates? Regardless of what disinformation and denials you declare, I know all such evil doings were, are and will yet be recorded in the ship’s log of the Captain of our Salvation.
Remember, Ruth, what we already discussed earlier about the boat’s identity as the Church©?
Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.
D&C 10:67-68
Are you saying that none of us is capable of following Jesus Christ without the Institutional Church©?
Are you saying that the Savior is not capable of saving any person without the Institutional Church©?
And that I’m supposed to believe you and not D&C 10:68?
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in [the land], they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.
– Ezekiel 14:14Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
– Phillipians 2:12
For behold, this is my church; whosoever is baptized shall be baptized unto repentance. And whomsoever ye receive shall believe in my name; and him will I freely forgive. – Mosiah 26:22
I thought that the blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ were freely offered to all men.
What exclusive capability does the Church© possess which could possibly be greater than anything the Savior and the Father can do?
Unless it’s the exercise of righteously-held (and therefore truly Heaven-authorized) Priesthood authority in the service of God and his children through the performance of heaven-authorized ordinance work for the living and the dead, I don’t know what you’re talking about!
And after they had been received unto baptism, and were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost, they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ; and their names were taken, that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God, to keep them in the right way, to keep them continually watchful unto prayer, relying alone upon the merits of Christ, who was the author and the finisher of their faith.
– Moroni 6:4
The power given to men on earth, without money and without price, to act in the name of God is a great trust. Yet, in the name of the Law of Sacrifice and Obedience©, the Church© currently sells access to those Priesthood© ordinances to its members© for money (Isaiah 55:1, 2 Nephi 26:25, Alma 1:20, ). The admonition to keep members “continually watchful unto prayer?” Seems more like members are kept continually watchful unto tithe-paying©.
“Your Heavenly Father loves you and wants to bless you in all aspects of your life. The commandments He gives through His prophets will help you live a happy life. The commandment to pay tithing, which was restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith, gives you an opportunity to participate in building up the kingdom of God on earth. Obedience to this commandment is a requirement for baptism into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
– “Tithing and Fast Offerings,” Tithing and Fast Offerings (2007), “These topics are part of lesson 4 in chapter 3 of Preach My Gospel. Intended as a study guide for investigators.”
28:20
“What Steven is doing is a form of [dramatic, attention-grabbing lawyer pause] Church© History© Whack-A-Mole.”
Laughably, you Renlunds continue to call any and all issues “dents” while your second animated video CLEARLY illustrates them as WHAT?!! Hahahahaha! As HOLES! Bwahahahahaha!
Correction, you two, but it’s actually Church© History© Whack-A-Dolphin. You can’t switch the setting of this parable of condemnation halfway through! No fair naughty, naughty, switcharoo!
Yes, it’s actually called Church History Whack-A-Dolphin, and Flipper is just trying, desperately, to do anything he can to get The Doubting Brat’s attention. Flipper the Friendly Dolphin keeps crying out from where he’s been popping up, down there in those holes at the bottom of this leaking ship. Unlike you, he wants to save little Bobby.
28:25
“You know, the children’s game…”
Condemning inference: you are a child, and a bad child. Not a mature, good, righteous, saint of an adult like me…. who happens to also have no original ideas.
In other words, you’re saying, “Grow up Doubting Brat, or you’ll be sorry! (1 Corinthians 13:11)”
28:36
Everybody laughs at the joke the Renlunds have made out of Steven. Even the Renlunds.
Though guilty men his pains deride,
They pierce his hands and feet and side.
And with insulting scoffs and scorns,
And with insulting scoffs and scorns,
They crown his head with plaited thorns.”Inasmuch as ye have done it
Unto the least of these, my brethren,
Ye have done it unto me.
And so, the Doubting Brat must now wait, a fainting, struggling sea man… bleeding from his wounds, in the dangerous shark-infested water off Jericho Reef… for someone to come along who really loves his neighbor as himself.
“We must not be guilty of persecuting anyone inside or outside the Church.”
Elder Dale G. Renlund
28:40
“While further intellectual information may temporarily resolve an intellectual concern,
She qualifies this statement too much. Only intellectual information, only a temporal resolution, and only an intellectual concern. God is bigger than that (Gen 18:14, Jacob 4:10).
And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith.
– D&C 88:118But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask meif it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
– D&C 9:8
And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
– Moroni 10:5But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
– 2 Timothy 3:14Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.
– D&C 29:34
So, this teaching of yours is false, too, Ruth. A person can have any question answered permanently through the witness of the Spirit of the Lord.
“Lay hold upon the word of God,which is quick and powerful [to quicken is to make alive], which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and leadthe man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked—
And land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out.”
– Helaman 3:29-30
28:47
“… further information is not the solution because, as Paul wrote to the Corinthians, ‘But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
She is calling these inquirers, these Doubting Brats equivalent to the natural man! As in, “enemies to God” (Mosiah 3:19)! She is telling them they do not have the capacity, or maybe even the right, as wicked men, to discern anything spiritually.
It is as if she has just read, “Seek and ye shall find. Ask and it shall be given. Knock and it shall be opened unto you” and then declared, “Believe it not.”
And Satan came among them, saying: I am also a son of God; and he commanded them, saying: Believe it not; and they believed it not, and they loved Satan more than God. And men began from that time forth to be carnal, sensual, and devilish.
– Moses 5:15
Obviously, the Renlunds both have a vested interest in discouraging any further inquiry on issues of discomfort or dishonor to the Church©. For in this manner, the Church© would stay safe, and maybe Steven would remain a little while longer if he would just cease and desist. That way, the Church© could at least include him in their Official Membership Body Count© (D&C 123:10)! Members© Wanted: Nearly Dead or Alive, It Doesn’t Much Matter.
I don’t think Steven should listen to them. I think he should keep walking past the Renlund’s poisoned well. I think he should continue on in his faith journey (Matt 13:45-46, John 9:10-11, 1 Ne 8:33-34). His destination is the Father. It was never the Church©.
Let’s not forget that Jesus asked Peter to put his trust in Him and leave the boat. (Matthew 14:24-32, Moses 1:20).
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good… Quench not the Spirit.
– 1 Thes 5:21, 19
Despite what Paul, the Renlunds and others have taught about natural men having no inkling of spiritual capacity (1 Ne 17:45, 2 Tim 3:7), this observation is still not set in stone. There are numerous examples in scripture of when a natural man COULD and DID receive the things of the Spirit of the Lord. It is God, not man, who deigns when these things happen (2 Ne 27:21, D&C 85:8, 2 Ne 29:9, ).
And they which heard it,being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, evenunto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman [taken in adultury] standing in the midst.
– John 8:92.For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil;
– Moroni 7:16And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews’ children.
– Exodus 2:6.
Pharoah’s daughter didn’t perceive little castaway Moses as a greedy, proud, faithless, disobedient, unrighteous Brat. And she didn’t abandon him back to the mercies of the dangers of that crocodile-infested river, either. Even though he was probably still crying for the security of that little boat of rushes with which his mother, in faith, had “cast [her] bread upon the waters” (Eccl 11:1, Psalm 33:22).
And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
– Acts 6:10When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
-Acts 5:33And now king Noah was about to release him, for he feared his word; for he feared that the judgments of God would come upon him.
– Mosiah 7:11
29:02
“Faith in Jesus Christ and a witness born of the Spirit are also needed.”
Again, she is using conflation to argue that a person can not have Faith in Jesus Christ or a witness born of the Spirit when they are struggling with questions and doubts about LDS© Church© History©. This assertion is another falsehood.
I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. – 1 Nephi 11:17
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. – Mark 9:24
See also TG Wrestle.
29:07
Many who have questions, who have already doubt in their mind, have difficulty finding their spiritual footing. They have nonetheless stayed faithful [to the Church© and its Leaders©] and have remained on the Covenant© Path©.
“Goofus, why can’t you be like Gallant?
“What’s wrong with you… Laman? Lemuel? …Esau? Ishmael? …. Reuben-Simeon-Levi-Judah-Issachar-Zebulon-Asher-Dan-Gad-Naphtali?”
29:36
“You don’t know everything, but you know enough”
Huh. Didn’t I just say that in the scriptures I quoted up in 29:02? Why was Neal L Anderson’s© sincere inquiry accepted by the Lord but Doubting Brat’s sincere inquiry rejected by the Church©? Because what the Church© wants is a cessation of the questions.
And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently…
– D&C 88:118Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
– 1 Thessalonians 5:21And [the Messiah] made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no evil, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
– Mosiah 14: 9And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
– 3 Nephi 16:10
Letter to the Whitneys, 18 August 1842, (pg 2) “ the only thing to be careful of; is to find out when Emma comes then you cannot be safe, but when she is not here, there is the most perfect safty: only be careful to escape observation, as much as possible… when I see you I <will> tell you all my plans, I cannot write them on paper, burn this letter as soon as you read it, keep all locked up in your breasts, my life depends upon it… you will pardon me for my earnestness on <this subject> when you consider how lonesome I must be, your good feelings know how to <make> every allowance for me, I close my letter, I think wont come to night if she dont, dont fail to come to night, I subscribe myself your most obedient, <and> affectionate, companion, and friend. – Joseph Smith
Oh. I’m just suppossed to be good with the Prophet© of the Last Dispensation© sending letters like this to a woman and her family; a woman who is not his wife, Emma?!
29:31
“At times, in fact, often, the Lord’s answer© will be, ‘You© know enough© to stay on the Covenant© Path© and keep my commandments©.”
So sit down, shut up, gratefully eat your stale crackers©, meekly drink your stagnant water© and for hell’s sake, quit rocking the Boat©!!
“It is not charity or kindness to endure any type of abuse or unrighteousness that may be inflicted on us by others. God’s commandment that as we love him, we must respect ourselves, suggests we must not accept disrespect from others. It is not charity to let another, [even an apostle and his wife], repeatedly deny our divine nature and agency. It is not charity to bow down in despair and helplessness.”
– Aileen H. Clyde
29:46
“When Nephi was asked if he knew what the condescension of God was…”
Oh, so you’re going to turn yet another scripture against the honest seeker and sincere inquirer again, to tell them to stuff it. But you misconstrue the event entirely.
During a vision which had come to Nephi because of his faith in his father, Lehi’s authority, and because of his personal desire to also receive the same vision, the instructing angel asked him a question that Nephi answered with complete emotional and intellectual honestly. The angel, already knowing that Nephi was in this state, respected Nephi’s level of mixed knowledge and lack of knowledge AND THEN, AS A REWARD, THE ANGEL PROVIDED NEPHI THE ANSWER TO THE TEACHING QUESTION WHICH HE, THE ANGEL, HAD ASKED OF NEPHI.
30:03
“In this life, we will never know the meaning of all things, but we know enough©!”
The Doubting Brats are not asking to know the meaning of all things. (Yet another legalistic conflation) The Doubting Brats are merely asking the Leaders© of the Church© for the meaning of accountable things. Yes, for the Presiding Brethren© to act in the duties of the office they claim, not just in it’s authority and privileges. Remember the words of Captain Peter Squicciarini? Where are the Brethren© taking responsibility? Where are the Brethren© bearing accountability? The crew of the Boat©, the membership©, have given you the trust of your authority©, and yet you refuse to be fully responsible and fully accountable to us for that trust.
“You keep using that word, enough. I don’t think it means what you think it means.”
– The Princess Bride, paraphrased.
30:08
“Our destinies depend on exercising embryonic faith that will grow as we act in faith.”
Translation “YOUR destiny depends on exercising embryonic faith in the Leaders© of the Church© that will grow as YOU act in unquestioning faith© in the Leaders© of the Church©.”
CBN.com describes the elements of a religious cult
1. Invariably, a cult will put something else on equal footing with Christ.
2. Salvation comes only through the cult
3. Cults often center around a leader who is trying to gain power, money, or influence from manipulating people. A true leader who serves Jesus Christ has one goal, and that is to exalt and manifest Jesus.
4. A final mark of a cult is the unwillingness of the leaders to let the people grow up. A true shepherd will do everything he can to bring Christian people to maturity as quickly as he can. He will not seek to avoid necessary teaching, nor will he try to keep people from maturity. Many cults perpetuate spiritual dependence so that their followers lose the ability to make independent, rational decisions
Last I knew, the placenta looked like the Tree of Life, not a filled rostrum© or Rameumptom©. Last I knew, the Tree of Life represented Jesus Christ himself, not any prophet or apostle. Last I knew, each infant’s umbilical cord directly connected and led him to the placenta. Last I knew, it was the placenta that ensured the survival of an infant in utero by serving as a Mediator, or veil, between the child and the body of that child’s Host, which can only be symbolized by our Heavenly Mother and Father themselves… not the Church© or its leaders©.
30:16
“Doubt is not and will never be the precursor of faith, any more than light depends on darkness for its creation.”
So what you’re saying is that anyone who has questions or doubts are full of darkness, and that all darkness is bad. Oh, I see. So God never uses darkness as a tool for his own purposes? He never uses darkness to teach us to discern truth from error; never uses darkness to instill in us a desire for more light and truth; never uses times of darkness to teach us to love the light?
In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done?Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?
– Joseph Smith History 1:10” You must learn to walk to the edge of the light, and then a few steps into the darkness; then the light will appear and show the way before you.”
– Counsel given by Elder Harold B Lee to a young Elder Boyd K Packer‘Dispute not because ye see not, for ye receive no witness until after the trial of your faith’”
– Ether 12:6
Light may not depend upon darkness for its creation, but we depend upon the contrast between light and darkness to determine truth for ourselves. Darkness is also part of God’s plan because He named it, allowed it a place, and provided for lights within and throughout its duration.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darknesswas upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
-Genesis 1:1-5
It was being seemingly trapped in a desolate, empty darkness which provoked the prophet Lehi to pray to the Lord for help.
And it came to pass that as I followed him I beheld myself that I was in a dark and dreary waste.
And after I had traveled for the space of many hours in darkness, I began to pray unto the Lord that he would have mercy on me, according to the multitude of his tender mercies.
– 1 Nephi 8:7-8
Remember: God knew all along, from the very beginning, that Adam and Ever were walking around buck naked in the Garden of Eden. He did not condemn them for their lack of light and knowledge, or use it against them to deceive, blame and shame. It was Lucifer who did that.
The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehendeven God, being quickened in him and by him.
Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.
– D&C 88:49-50
Light comprehends all things. Even darkness. Light is not afraid of darkness. It is darkness that is afraid of light.
Now, when a man reasoneth he is understood of man, because he reasoneth as a man; even so will I, the Lord, reason with you that you may understand.
– D&C 50:12
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.,,
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
– John 3:17, 19-21
“The Church© History© Department© stores its collections in facilities located around the world and is committed to making its collections available to the public through physical and electronic means without compromising those that are sacred, confidential, private, or otherwise restricted for legal, ethical, or religious reasons. Restrictions may be placed on items and collections by statutes or regulations, the creators or donors of the records, the Church©’s ecclesiastical leaders©, and Church© History© staff© after careful review.”
“Black?! Methinks thou art black, too!” said the little kettle.
Verily I say unto you that it is your privilege, and a promise I give unto you that have been ordained unto this ministry, that inasmuch as you strip yourselves from jealousies and fears, and humble yourselves before me, for ye are not sufficiently humble, the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual. – D&C 67:10
Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty,not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
– 2 Corinthians 4:1-2
And they were also distinguished for their zeal towards God, and also towards men; for they were PERFECTLY HONEST and upright in ALL things; and they were firm in the faith of Christ, even unto the end.
– Alma 27:27
30:27
“Peter wasn’t told, after he was slipping into the water, after having tried to walk on it, ‘O Peter, if only you had more doubt!”
Sarcasm. Well, that’s Christlike.
This is a ridiculous, condescending, moralizing naturalistic fallacy,“when the conclusion expresses what ought to be, based only on what is, or what ought not to be, based on what is not.”
Furthermore, they are using the logical fallacy of conflation again, to argue their main point: that to doubt the Ecclesiasticorporate Church© and it’s Leaders© is the exact same thing as doubting the Savior, Jesus Christ, himself.
30:37
“No, he was told, ‘O thou of little faith. Wherefore didst thou doubt?'”
I believe that when Jesus said this, it was entirely without condemnation. His question was posed as a teaching inquiry for Peter’s sake, since our Lord already knew the answer. He honestly wanted Peter to answer, in order for Peter to gain wisdom from this experience.
30:44
“In the Lectures on Faith…”
Really? The same Lectures on Faith© which were cannonized as the Doctrine part of the The Doctrine and Covenants© by the Law of Common Consent – the affirming vote of the whole church membership at a General Conference©… but arbitrarily de-cannonized and removed from the D&C in 1921 without the vote of the general conference of the Church© but instead under the apostolic authority of a committee of less than 30 men just like Elder© Renlund, including the apostle©, James E Talmage©.
Oh, this is rich! Using the authority of a book your ilk have de-authorized, whose authorship you question, and which you have summarily ripped from our cannon of scripture! Go on, go on… I can’t wait to hear this!
30:46
“…the difference between faith and doubt are explained.”
“Where doubt and uncertainty are, faith is not nor can it be. For doubt and faith do not exist in the same person at the same time… Persons whose minds are under doubts and fears cannot have unshaken confidence. And where unshaken confidence is not, there faith is weak. And where faith is weak, the persons will not be able to contend against all the opposition, tribulations, and afflictions which they will have to encounter in order to be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ-Jesus. And they will grow weary in their minds and the Adversary will have power over them, and destroy them.“
Are you going to include the qualifiers, Elder© Renlund? Faith in Jesus Christ? Faith in Heavenly Father? Faith that your offering is acceptable to him? Faith that the life you are pursuing is approved by him? No, you’re NOT.
You’re going to conflate this, yet again, to mean implicit faith in the Church© and its Leaders©. You’re going to conflate it to preach blind obedience to both. You’re going to conflate it, once again, like so many have before you, to promote the false doctrine of prophetic infallibility in the minds of the Latter-day Saints©, all without specifically mentioning the term. That is absolutely not the doctrine that is taught in Lecture Sixth of the Lectures on Faith:
“Having treated, in the preceding lectures, of the ideas of the character, perfections and attributes of God, we next proceed to treat of the knowledge which persons must have, that the course of life which they pursue is according to the will of God, in order that they may be enabled to exercise faith in him unto life and salvation… An actual knowledge to any person that the course of life which he pursues is according to the will of God, is essentially necessary to enable him to have that confidence in God, without which no person can obtain eternal life. It was this that enabled the ancient saints to endure all their afflictions and persecutions… Such was and always will be the situation of the saints of God, that unless they have an actual knowledge that the course that they are pursuing is according to the will of God, they will grow weary in their minds and faint;…
But those who have not made this sacrifice to God, do not know that the course which they pursue is well pleasing in his sight; for whatever may be their belief or their opinion, it is a matter of doubt and uncertainty in their mind; and where doubt and uncertainty is, there faith is not, nor can it be. For doubt and faith do not exist in the same person at the same time. So that persons whose minds are under doubts and fears cannot have unshaken confidence, and where unshaken confidence is not, there faith is weak, and where faith is weak, the persons will not be able to contend against all the opposition, tribulations and afflictions which they will have to encounter in order to be heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ Jesus; and they will grow weary in their minds, and the adversary will have power over them and destroy them.”
I KNEW he took it out of context. I KNEW he would. Probably because she helped him write this.
I am meant to be a pure reflection of the Truth
So, above it all I pray that I will not obscure the view– Could You Believe, by Twila Paris
31:38
“This is what happened to Steven! He let doubt and uncertainty occupy his mind.”
He let doubt and uncertainty about the honesty and integrity of the leaders© of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints© and their questionable actions and teachings, occupy his mind. Elder© Renlund, in terms of Steven’s spiritual development, you have said nothing about Father or The Son. That is signification enough to me of the source from whence your victim-shaming comes.
The holes belong to the Boat©. It’s not the Brat’s fault that he found them there.
31:43
“As time went on, he didn’t have the strength to confront the challenges he faces as a member of the Church©. He grew weary in his mind. And his faith disappeared.”
If Steven’s faith was founded in the Church© and it’s Leaders© instead of properly, directly grounded in, to and on the Father and the Son, you betcha his faith would disappear. You’re proving my point for me!
31:56
“To have questions about the Church© and its doctrine© is normal, and the root of Gospel© learning.”
No, you don’t really believe that. You both – by spoken word and by silent assent to it – have been bashing this concept and the sincere seeker of truth from the moment you drew breath to begin this talk. I can’t wait to hear your bullshit qualifier of this statement.
32:03
“Joseph Smith understood that when he read, ‘If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him.”
Ri-i-i-i-i-ght. And I’ll bet what you’re going to say next is that when you listen to an Authorized Servant© of the Authorized Church©, you ARE hearing God’s answer to you, right? The scripture says ask of GOD!
32:17
“But the passage continues, ‘but let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.’ In other words, ask God, not doubting, that He can give you an answer.”
Websters 1828 Dictionary:
WAVER: To fluctuate; to be unsettled in opinion; to vacillate; to be undetermined; as, to waver in opinion; to waver in faith.
And, of course, any member who has been around the block more than once already knows that the only acceptable answer to these two folks at the podium is that God will surely tell you that the Church© and every single one of it’s Servants© are absolutely trustworthy and have never done anything wrong. Chipped paint! Merely chipped paint!
32:28
“The passage continues, ‘for he that wavereth’, or doubts, ‘is like a wave of the sea, driven with the wind and tossed.’ “
Webster 1828 Dictionary:
DOUBT, verb intransitive
1. To waver or fluctuate in opinion; to hesitate; to be in suspense; to be in uncertainty; to be in suspense; to be in uncertainty, respecting the truth or fact; to be undetermined.Even in matters divine, concerning some things, we may lawfully doubt and suspend our judgment. So we say, I doubt whether it is proper; I doubt whether I shall go; sometimes with of, as we doubt of a fact.
2. To fear; to be apprehensive; to suspect; as, I doubt there’s deep resentment in his mind.
DOUBT, verb transitive
1. To question, or hold questionable; to withhold assent from; to hesitate to believe; as, I have heard the story, but I doubt the truth of it.2. To fear; to suspect; as, If they turn not back perverse; but that I doubt
3. To distrust; to withhold confidence from; as, to doubt our ability to execute an office.
4. To fill with fear.
Faced with the unvarnished, unedited, uncorrelated realities of Church© History©, why wouldn’t a person of normal intelligence have some doubts?
Furthermore, why wouldn’t a person of normal intelligence feel like the Brethren© are breaking out their iron mallets and attempting to play a shaming, silencing, blaming game of Whack A Member upon them and upon other members like them who share the same grave concerns?
Here it is again! Do you honestly think that if you repeat your deceptive and evil message enough that members will accept your unqualified logical fallacy, your conflation, that God = The Church© and It’s Leaders© = God?! This is NOT so! There is a QUALIFIER!
The rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
That they may be conferred© upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority© of that man.
– D&C 121:36-37
32:37
“For let not that man think that he shall receive anything of the Lord.” [James 1:7]
Translation: you, Doubting Brat, will get NO revelation if you do not accept the package deal of our conflagration which we have been teaching you in this address, at this rostrum, in this meeting place, this day!
Well, thank the Lord Jesus that the LDS Church© and LDS prophets© and apostles© are NOT the exact same entity as our Lord, Jesus Christ, the Light of Christ, the Holy Ghost, or the Heavenly Father.
… I am able to do mine own work; wherefore thou shalt read the words which I shall give unto thee.
– 2 Nephi 27:20I seek messengersfrom my Father to teach me!
– Adam
32:43
“A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.”
Oh…. so you’re inferring that Doubting Brat has somehow lost his sanity?
Websters 1828
UNSTA’BLE, adjective [Latin instabilis.]1. Not stable; not fixed.
2. Not steady; inconstant; irresolute; wavering.Mirriam-Webster 2019 adds
d :liable to change or alteration
e : characterized by lack of emotional control
“And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?”
– John 10:21-21
32:47
“To receive the kind of answer that Joseph Smith sought, to receive the kind of answer we crave, we need to approach God with a believing heart, and a mind desiring that the things of God will become known to us.”
Um, no. I already told you what Joseph Smith said in Lectures on Faith. Why are you trying to establish new doctrine?
33:02
“We love a statement made by Elder© John A Widtsoe©, an apostle© earlier in this dispensation that further explains doubt, and I’ll paraphrase what he said.”
And I”ll go back and make sure I look up the actual, complete quote, Dale and Ruth, because, from what I’ve seen already of your doctrinal and scriptural extrapolations, I don’t trust you to teach me the actual doctrine. I trust you to teach me something entirely more self-serving than that.
33:15
“Doubt, unless changed into inquiry, from a reliable, trustworthy sources, has no value or worth. A stagnant doubter, one content with himself, unwilling to make the appropriate effort, to pay the price of the divine discovery, inevitably reaches unbelief and darkness…”
HE ADDED “from a reliable©, trustworthy© sources.”Of course he did! So you were feigning in your assertion that you were “just” paraphrasing. Like your listener was supposed to let his guard down, or something. BUT THAT “CASUAL” ADDITION WAS QUITE DELIBERATE!
Right? Of course right! It reaffirms the one of Brethren©’s current rants that members can only go to LDS-authorized©, LDS-sanitized© and LDS-spun© sources of truth mingled with error when investigating troubling aspects of the Church©, it’s history© or it’s leaders©!
But I thought truth is things as they really were, things as they really are, and things as they really will be. I thought we were taught in the temple that ALL truth can be circumscribed into one great whole, and not that LDS Truth© IS the great whole! I thought that all this work of sorting and discerning good from evil, for ourselves, was the very reason why the good Lord allowed us our intelligence and agency, safeguarded by obedience to the reconciliatory conditions of the Atonement
“It is better for us to pass through sorrow, that we may know the good from the evil!
“And Eve… heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.”
Here is the actual quote, so far as I can track down online at this time, which was originally cited, without providing sources, by BYU© professor Robert L Millet:
“The late LDS apostle© Elder John A. Widtsoe© explained that doubt “can be and should be only a temporary condition. . .The strong man is not afraid to say, ‘I do not know’; the weak man simpers and answers, ‘I doubt.’ Doubt, unless transmuted into inquiry, has no value or worth in the world. Of itself it has never lifted a brick, driven a nail or turned a furrow. To take pride in being a doubter, without earnestly seeking to remove the doubt, is to reveal shallowness of thought and purpose.”
TRANSLATION: You, the Doubting Brat, have no value or worth to us. Hence all this time that we Renlunds spent discrediting you to your face was actually in an effort to ward off other members from engaging your same process of honest intellectual inquiry.
“Be warned, Jedi Knights! Doubting Brat, I’m sorry to have to tell you this, is a liar! Lying is a sin! All liars deserve to be shunned by their fellows! Shun him! Avoid him! Do not make him your friend! Trust me, I’m an Apostle©. They are of the Dark Side.”
33:40
“His doubts grow like poisonous mushrooms in the dim shadows of his mental and spiritual chambers.”
My precious….
33:48
“At last, blind like the mole in his burrow, he usually substitutes ridicule for reason…”
Did I call the Gollum metaphor, or did I call the Gollum metaphor? Except, by hiding his meaning by renaming it a mole, he’s opened his comparison up to the light of logic.
SYMBOL: Going back to Church History Whack-A-Mole, does that little mole holding up the signs represent Church©-unauthorized, ridiculing, unreasoning teachers or Church©-unauthorized, “ridiculous”, “unreasonable” facts or both? So what he’s saying is that the minds and hearts of inquiring members like Doubting Brat and Steven Scarecrow are like dim and shadowy chambers? Out of which pop poisonous rodents?
SYMBOL: I seem to recall learning that moles are blind. Since I accept Intelligent Design – the concept of a Creator being responsible for the Creation of this world – that would mean that God created moles. He was perfectly okay with endowing these creatures with the gift of blindness in order to increase their power and capacity to dig burrows. How is this a bad thing again?
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
– John 9:1-2
33:55
“… indolence for labor, and becomes a lazy scholar.”
Ohhhh. You tell me, Elder© Renlund. Does this blog and this blog post look the the work of a lazy Gospel scholar?
34:01
“Doubt is not wrong unless it becomes an end, in and of itself.”
TRANSLATION: Discrediting anybody whose “business” is to question the Church©. Such as McKenna Denson, Sam Young, Jonathan Streeter, etc.
“For there are many yet on the earth among ALL sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the Truth because they know not where to find it—
Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven—
These should then be attended to with great earnestness.
Let no man count them as small things; for there is much which lieth in futurity, pertaining to the saints, which depends upon these things.
You know, brethren, that a very large ship is benefited very much by a very small helm in the time of a storm, by being kept workways with the wind and the waves.
Therefore, dearly beloved brethren, let us cheerfully do all things that lie in our power; and then may we stand still, with the utmost assurance, to see the salvation of God, and for his arm to be revealed
D&C 123:12-17
Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.
-D&C 88:81
34:07
“That doubt which feeds and grows upon itself, and breeds more doubt, is evil.“
You mean like the rolling of a stone cut without hands that will grow until it fills the whole earth (D&C 65:2)? Other churches have made such statements about us!
The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and INDEPENDENT, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done.”
– Joseph Smith, Jr
I thought that if something “swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow” that it was a good thing (Alma 32:28, 30). Hm, that’s interesting. Especially considering the fact that I once had a bishop tell me to my face that I had an evil seed.
“If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way. Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the Gospel of salvation which He revealed? So do I. “
– Joseph Smith, Jr
Yes, Elder© and Sister Renlund, really should have chosen your words of condemnation more carefully. May I suggest that it might have been better if you had used this story?May I also suggest that you start feeding your other wolf?
34:15
“Elder© Widtsoe’s words are still true. Stagnant doubt does not lead to the reality of knowing our Savior Jesus Christ and his Atonement.”
Last time I checked, the only thing your parables labeled as stagnant was the water that was offered to Doubting Brat by the Fisherman©. There you go again, changing your story by the artful use of projection, one of the tools of psychological abuse used by abusers. With this deliberate flip of noun following the adjective, “stagnant”, you’ve magically changed your stagnant water into the Doubting Brat’s stagnant doubt.
34:26
“It doesn’t lead to knowing that we have a kind, loving, Heavenly Father who instituted the Great Plan of Salvation”
This is starting to smell like a logical fallacy called infinite regression. Through the Renlund’s narrated video animations, starting points were created with axioms. Axioms© are assumptions that are asserted to be true, in this case, because they are riding on the apostolic© authority© of the office of Elder© Renlund… “One way to solve infinite regression is by using circular reasoning. The proof and the conclusion become the same thing. The conclusion is assumed as part of the proof. . . Sometimes a group of experts© will agree that these axioms are true, but that doesn’t make them true.”
“The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.”
– Psalm 145:18
The truth is that we, each of us, has a kind, loving Heavenly Father, whether we believe in Him or not. We have a kind loving Heavenly Father whether we believe the Church© and it’s Leaders© are always inspired or not.
34:33
“We can come to know the truthfulness of this latter-day work©”
There it is. The gist of it. Now he’s probably going to tell the LDS-Thought-Control conditions of how.
34:40
“But it requires that we choose faith, not doubt, and that we go to reliable©, trustworthy© sources for our answers.”
Stop the video. Look at their faces! It’s ridiculous, this obvious institutional panic over their loss of information flow and therefore mind control over the masses.
I have just reviewed, again, the Thirteen Articles of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints© and found three pertinent tenants:
3. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
11.We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God ACCORDING TO THE DICTATES OF OUR OWN CONSCIENCE, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. [the punctuation is SIGNIFICANT here. In other words, “Our belief in being subject to these leaders only goes so far as they obey, honor, and sustain the law.”]
This does not sound like what Brother and Sister Renlund are preaching. The Renlunds are preaching blanket, unquestioning faith in the Church© and it’s Leaders©, conformity of all stirrings of the mind and heart to the dictates of that Church© and its Leaders©, and absolutely denying that the Church© or any of it’s Leaders© could ever fail to obey, honor and sustain the laws of God and man.
And even if they ever did, it’s not ever the Church’s© fault.
Well, I’ve got news for you. While charity never faileth, everything and everyone else except Jesus Christ can fail. Yes, even in the Church. But JESUS never fails.
“And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.” – Isaiah 11:5
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1 John 5:4,5,12
34:46
“Alma spoke about this principle as well. He said, ‘And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word. And he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it’s given unto him to know the mysteries of God, until he know them in full. And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word, until they know nothing concerning his mysteries. And then, they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction.”
“… Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.” Hmm. So Satan has a version of the umbilical cord, too! Sister Renlund did not complete quoting verse 11 nor provide the reference or setting to the two verses she quoted (Alma 12: 10-11).
Let’s do that by going back a few verses in Alma 12 to verse 4, where Alma is talking to Zeezrom.
“And thou seest that we know that thy plan was a very subtle plan, as to the subtlety of the devil, for to lie and to deceive this people that thou mightest set them against us, to revile us and to cast us out— “
How can finding out uncomfortable truths about the LDS Church© or it’s Leaders© or it’s history be to lie and to deceive this people? Unless the Church© is afraid that uncomfortable truths might “set [the people] against us, to revile us and to cast us out.” Which is, by the way, exactly what some of them are doing.
“8. And Zeezrom began to inquire of them diligently, that he might know more concerning the kingdom of God. And he said unto Alma: What does this mean which Amulek hath spoken concerning the resurrection of the dead, that all shall rise from the dead, both the just and the unjust, and are brought to stand before God to be judged according to their works?
9. And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they [the many,] are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.”
Alma’s sermon is NOT about unconditional, trusting, unquestioning faith in the Church© and its Leaders© versus suppressing serious doubts brought on by sober inquiry into the Church© and it’s Leaders©. Even though this issue is currently HUGE among many members of the Church©.
NO, Alma’s sermon is about the conditions of Heavenly Father’s own Plan of Redemption through His Only Begotten Son.
28. And after God had appointed that these things [the Fall] should come unto man, behold, then he saw that it was expedient that man should know concerning the things whereof he had appointed unto them;
29 Therefore he sent angels to converse with them, who caused men to behold of his glory.
30 And they began from that time forth to call on his name; therefore God conversed with men, and made known unto them the plan of redemption, which had been prepared from the foundation of the world; and this he made known unto them according to their faith and repentance and their holy works…
33. But God did call on men, in the name of his Son, (this being the plan of redemption which was laid) saying: If ye will repent, and harden not your hearts, then will I have mercy upon you, through mine Only Begotten Son;
34 Therefore, whosoever repenteth, and hardeneth not his heart, he shall have claim on mercy through mine Only Begotten Son, unto a remission of his sins; and these shall enter into my rest.
35 And whosoever will harden his heart and will do iniquity, behold, I swear in my wrath that he shall not enter into my rest.
Yet again, we see the Church© and it’s Leaders© putting themselves directly in place of, and practically in the stead of the Savior. We see the false message being advanced, once more, that at all times and in all things and in all places – with no qualifiers like personal integrity – The Church© is the very same thing as God.
35:24
“So, would you seek financial advice from someone who is broke and in debt?”
Broke and in debt like Joseph Smith was after the failure of the Kirtland Safety Society©? Broke and in debt like the Church© was until Lorenzo Snow© began and his successor Joseph F Smith© finished the doctrinal shift that made paying tithing© a mandatory requirement to receiving a temple© recommend©? No.
Pay no attention to the men© behind the curtain. Instead look here! At the pillory! Here, where we Renlunds are carrying out even more shaming of the Church’s© Doubting Brat. O du schöne, o du schöne, o du schöne Schadenfreude!
Actually, my answer to their question is yes. Yes, I just might seek financial advice from someone who had failed to handle their finances correctly. I might actually want their honest counsel, knowing they could obtain no personal gain from sharing their wisdom with me; wisdom learned from very painful experience, of what not to do (Proverbs 14:5).
As an old college janitor once told my then-atheist father,”You are a child of God! So is any man you meet! If you can not learn something of value from every person, then you are no better than a chicken.”
35:30
“Would you ask for medical advice from a charletan snake-oil salesman?”
Hm. There it is again: the odd tactic of using a label of judgement and condemnation often applied to Joseph Smith against those inquiring, truth-seeking minds like Joseph among Church© members today.
This label sure sounds like something a die-hard allopath like Dale G Renlund would say about any alternative medical practitioner. I wonder if Dr. Renlund is aware that after
Dr Levi Richards
his horrible ordeal with his leg surgery, the prophet Joseph Smith relied solely on non-allopathic Thomsonian “vitalists” including Levi and Willard Richards to treat him? Yes, the very “snake-oil” medical practitioners whose methods and beliefs were viewed by mainstream medicine as quackery?
Furthermore, in order to avoid seeking treatment from a charletan snake-oil salesman, I would first have to become undecieved: I would have to hear from somebody with the courage to speak the truth; someone who did not love and make a lie(D&C 76:103); that the person passing themselves off as a medical expert was, in actuality, a charletan snake-oil salesman… and then I would have to believe their testimony enough to ACT on it.
Finally, I’m gonna drop a little truth bomb. According to Dr Eric Berg, DC” Snake oil has been used traditionally in China for a very very long time. It’s loaded with Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Omega 3 fatty acids make up like EPA and DHA which are very essential for the brain, for the nervous system, for the mood, for the cardiovascular system but snake oil has 20% more EPA than salmon oil.”
The condescending, mocking way in which the Renlunds pose this question almost seems to insinuate that they really believe that among the listening audience there might actually be a Young Adult member© SO DUMB that, if presented with the option, might deliberately, of their free will and choice, go straight into the clutches of a known medical con-artist. And they, the “sad” Fishermen©, will be there to personally help that Brat slip into the water as punishment for their refusal to listen to reason©.
“You are so dumb. You are really dumb.” – Antoine Dodson
35:36
“Who would you take some advice from on how to improve your forehand in tennis? A weekend hack or Roger Felder?”
Now who’s the one complaining that they’ll accept only the best? That only Evian®, Perrier® and chocolate croissants will do for them?! The Doubting Brat can eat mud for all you care, but you deserve to receive the Father’s teachings from more than mere amateur saints.
Since I don’t play that sport of the rich elite, I really couldn’t say from whom I’d prefer to take tennis advice, Ruthie. I had to take what I could get from among my high school P.E. staff… and because they pretty much put us out to pasture and ignored us in the courts, the primary lesson I learned was how to whallop as many spherical yellow missives over the fence as I could before gym ended!
35:45
“So why would you entrust your eternal welfare to those who are spiritually bankrupt because they have ripped up in doubt what they once planted in faith? Or who, as Jeremiah said, ‘Have forsaken Christ, the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water?“
Yes, why would I? Here’s more context from the second chapter of Jeremiah to answer you:
Thus saith the LORD, What iniquity have your fathers found in me, that they are gone far from me, and have walked after vanity, and are become vain?
Neither said they, Where is the LORD that brought us up out of the lands of New York, Ohio, Missouri and Illinois, that led us through the wilderness, through a land of deserts and of pits, through a land of drought, and of the shadow of death, through a land that no man passed through, and where no man dwelt?
And I brought you into a plentiful country, to eat the fruit thereof and the goodness thereof; but when ye entered, ye defiled my land, and made mine heritage an abomination.
The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit…
Hast thou not procured this unto thyself, in that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, when he led thee by the way?..
Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.
Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.”
Collins English Dictionary: HOLD WATER
If an argument or theory “does not hold water”, it does not seem to be reasonable or in accordance with facts.British definition: to prove credible, logical or consistent.
American definition:
1. to contain water without leaking
2. to remain sound, consistent or logical, with no breaks or weaknesses
3. to keep a boat at a standstill by holding the oars steady in the water
“And oftentimes, to win us to our harm,
The instruments of darkness tell us truths,
Win us with honest trifles, to betray us
In deepest consequence.”
– William Shakespeare, Macbeth
36:10
“These individuals have walked away from that Fountain of Living Waters, and want you to trust in something, that doesn’t hold water!”
These individuals have walked away from Jesus Christ, have they? How about these individuals who demand your unreserved trust and insist that everything they’ve censored© and whitewashed© and edited© and glossed over© and glorified© and spun© and hidden© and changed by revelation© and minimized© and gaslighted© and quietly removed© and refused to discuss© holds water?
Joseph Smith relating four versions of the First Vision… Polygamy being practiced in Nauvoo and after the Manifesto in 1890… The Priesthood being withheld for a time from those of African descent… The ordination of Elijah Abel during the lifetime of Joseph Smith…. Brigham Young disbanded Relief Society for something like 40 years… Joseph Smith’s polygamy included more women than Eliza Snow, including women who were already married, and a 14-year-old housemaid… With Joseph’s full approbation, women once used Priesthood power to administer to the sick and afflicted … Brigham Young setting his sons up to succeed him in the Twelve and the Twelve undoing it… Brigham Young’s liberal use of church funds throughout his presidency… Absolutely no discernment among the Twelve of apostle Richard Lyman’s decades-long adultery … The swift full membership reinstatement of Richard Lyman before his death… The personal persecution of Bishop John Koyle by the apostle, James Talmadge, which led to Koch’s excommunication … The personal persecution of George Pace by the apostle Bruce R McConkie… Brigham Young began editing the History of the Church as soon as Joseph was dead… The ballistics in Carthage Jail not matching up to the official story… Brigham Young’s involvement with the Cohenites… Brigham Young insistence on serving a mission without a companion to Saco, Maine… Brigham Young coming home from that mission with a secret second wife who had left her husband and was pregnant with his baby… The excommunication of intellectuals like Avraham Gileadi and Janice Merrill Allred…The real truth that the death and suffering of the Martin and Willie Handcart Companies was a direct result of the hubris of Apostle Franklin Richards. That his demand that his counsel be obeyed sprang from the misuse of the authority his office. That he was never held accountable for forcing his opinion on these saints, nor for their deaths and sufferings, nor for abandoning the plan he foisted upon them but instead abandoned them to head to Utah in his own horse and buggy before winter came . . . The fact that the Martin and Willie Expeditions WERE a DISASTER, yet have been glorified to the point of being annually reenacted, to this day! What’s next? The Donner Party Trek?
The excommunication of Sam Young… The reinstatement of Howard Wesley Goodwin Jr… The extensive perks given to Mission Presidents by the Church… My son getting sexually harassed at an LDS Boy Scout camp, reporting to the bishop, and nothing was done…. The security in the temple being so poor that cameras and recording devices are regularly getting in, and websites like the Temple Name Oracle are getting it’s hands on sacred temple information… The misogyny inherent in many of the names given to women in the rotating monthly calender… The Church’s vicious and prolonged legal attack against any victims of Church-connected sexual abuse with the courage to come forward… The ugly, hidden side of the Church as repeatedly exposed by leaked internal documents and the testimonies of individuals harmed… The continued attempt to force spiritual experiences in the youth through Church-sponsored events like Wilderness Youth Conference and Trek… The continued denial by the Brethren that any person in leadership could be exercising unrighteous dominion and their choice to victim blame instead (this address being a primary example of that!)… Members having NO recourse when a leader steps out of bounds… Wolves continuing to be tolerated within the flock and even placed, repeatedly, in positions of trust, honor, and access… The racism I have experienced and observed in the Church, especially toward the children of Lehi… Elder Jeffrey R Holland calling prior teachings of ordained and sustained prophets and apostles “folklore”… Elder Dallin H Oaks, at the Be One Celebration, insisting that members obey their leaders even if the Spirit bears personal witness to them that the Brethren’s doctrines and policies are wrong… Elder D Todd Christofferson teaching the exact opposite concept: that of ultimate personal accountability to God in October 2014 General Conference… No sex offender background checks or domestic violence training given to lay clergy or the General Authorities…. TSTP: The Same Ten People … Hostility from leaders and members alike when I insist on the respect of personal boundaries, including no one-on-one interviews… Repeated ecclesiastical badgering and browbeating about the manner in which my children are educated. As if I am violating some Church law instead of just offending their personal opinions and sensibilities…. The forced faked friend-shipping that “ministering” now hoists upon me, by assignment, without my input or my permission… The archaic and arbitrary communication, contact, and end-of-mission policies for full-time YSA missionaries and their families… Progressive historians who use old anti-Mormon source material taking over the Church with the Church’s full permission and cooperation… No official recognition of the plausiblity of the Heartland Model of the Book of Mormon, but rather, continuing to cling to a non-North American location, despite Joseph Smith’s own teachings on the subject… Have I reached 99 yet?
Huh. How about that. Absolutely no leaks here.
36:19
“Brothers and sisters, you can know that there is a living Christ. The blogosphere cannot replace scripture© study and reading the words of living apostles© and prophets©.”
Again, with the redirection, and relabeling. Their concern is not really about the members testimonies of Jesus Christ, or their habits of scripture study. Otherwise, they would have borne witness of Him and given personal testimony of the blessings they’ve enjoyed from scripture study . Their concern is what they perceive as a very dangerous threat to their own security and to survival of the institutional Church©: that ANY member of the Church© might dare to listen to ANY other source of information other than the Church© and it’s Leaders©. Whoa, Bessie! Can’t be having you out of control now, can we?
“Dictators are… able to rule with… practical tools, such as fear and control of information, according to Jerrold Post, director of the political psychology program at George Washington University…
“Post said that in both Iraq and North Korea, dictators tightly controlled the flow of information. That control was upended in the past two years during the “Arab spring” revolts that swept away despots in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and some of the Gulf states, revolts that were encouraged in large part by information spread by cell phones and social media.
“Controlling information and controlling dissent are part of what goes into maintaining a totalitarian state,” Post said.”
Airborne Leaflet Propoganda
36:31
“Foster your faith by going to trustworthy© sources to find answers to your question.”
TRANSLATION: Foster your faith in the Church© and its Leaders© by going to the Church© and it’s Leaders© to find answers to your questions.
This is a STUPID piece of advice! Some of the most damaging hits to my testimony came from so-called authorized© sources like FARMS©. If that’s academic apologetics, who needs misconstruing, incorrect persecutors? I highly doubt that every Church Leader© would agree with every source where I have found helpful, reliable information. But I’m not following them. I’m following the Spirit, and learning to use the gift of discernment I have been given to determine what’s true and what isn’t, for myself.
And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.
Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.
– 2 Nephi 2:15-16
36:40
“When we try to determine if something is true or not, the prophet Mormon gives us a pattern to follow: ‘Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God, and that which is evil cometh of the devil… But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore everything which inviteth and enticeth to do good and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God… It is given unto you to know [and to judge], that ye may know good from evil. And the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.”
That’s Moroni 7:12-15. Why did Elder Renlund add that extra phrase, “and to judge”? Why do the Renlunds continue to minimize the importance, yes, the preeminence of that God-given capability and privilege: His TRUST, His CONFIDENCE “given unto you, [each and every one of the children of God]?” Yes, minimize it, even while they read aloud the very scripture that preaches this grand truth?
It’s as if they are saying you can only follow the Official Pattern© of knowing© and judging© to be sure.
Furthermore, just because something is evil doesn’t mean it can’t be true… and just because something is good doesn’t mean it can’t be false. He’s conflating again. They can’t make blanket statements like this!
Example: Ted Bundy killed many people. This statement is evil and true; an evil truth.
Example: There are no priesthood© holders in the Church© who are sexual predators. This statement is good and false; a comforting assertion, except that it isn’t true. Ted Bundy was a priesthood© holder in the Church© who was a sexual predator.
37:26
“For behold, the spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil.”
That’s Moroni 7:16. SO WHY ARE YOU GUYS SO WORRIED?! WHY DON’T YOU TRUST US?
37:33
“Wherefore, I show unto you a way to judge. For everything which inviteth to do good and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil;” Why did you stop?
They quoted Moroni 7:16 and part of 17. I agree. And may I add, “for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.”
Has this talk© lovingly persuaded Doubting Brat and Steven to do good? Or has it mocked them for having concerns and expressing them openly and honestly? Has this talk© comforted those with similar doubts, reassuring them that a godly resolution can indeed be found, “however long or hard the road”? Has the tone of voice used by the speakers©, especially Sister Renlund, inspired struggling members with the comfort of knowing that their Church© leaders© trust in them; believe that they, though young, are still adults of the covenant©, kept in reserve for the challenges of this very day and time; and are fully capable of discerning truth from error through the divine powers of the Spirit of Christ and the gift of the Holy Ghost already shining within them? NO!
“I teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.” – Joseph Smith
As God is my witness, I dearly hope my two young adult children don’t believe half this drivel! It is FOR THEM and for some of my friends among the wounded and disassociated LDS© community that I have taken the time to rip apart this attack in the same manner that it has so cruelly ripped apart them.
Boomerang. Karma, baby. This is called reaping what you’ve sown©.
38:07
“So it’s simple. If a choice leads you to do good, and believe in Christ, it’s from God. If the choice entices you to do evil and deny Christ, it’s of the devil.”
Duh, really? I know this. We all know this.
I sense another conflation coming. A BIG one. Stated like a declarative fact. Wait for it…
38:25
“As you get on the covenant path©, you can know that those things that distract you from that path©, that persuade you not to believe in Christ, are wrong.”
I told you so. TRANSLATION: You, a member© of THIS CHURCH© can know that those things that distract you from BLINDLY FOLLOWING everything you’re taught by us©, that tempt you to broach even a single question or entertain a single doubt, are, in fact, persuading you not to believe in Jesus Christ. Therefore, they must be wrong.
That is a statement of conflation! To teach that the Church© or the authority/power© of the Servants within the Church© to carry out ordinances and administer in behalf of the Lord is the very same thing as Jesus Christ himself is false! Remember the qualifiers! Personal worthiness! Personal righteousness! The exercise of righteous dominion!
Last I looked, the Iron Rod represented THE WORD OF GOD, as in JESUS CHRIST (1 Nephi 11:25, John 1:4). It did not represent the Church©, and it did not represent it’s Leaders©, especially not unconditionally. Last I looked, Jesus Christ was called The Bridegroom.
Last I looked, the CHURCH was actually symbolized as a virgin, as The Bride of the Bridegroom, as an imperfect being whose task was to prepare, purify and perfect herself for their wedding day (Rev 19:7-8, JST Appendix Genesis 9:16-17). Even more important, this Bride had only half a chance of getting that process right (Matthew 25:2,4, 9).
The CHURCH was also symbolized as a body, in which no part was to be deemed as unneeded, unwanted or disdained as unimportant or unworthy of care (1 Corinthians 12:14-27). That flies right in the face of what you have been telling Doubting Brat and Steven, and what you have been telling the rest of us members about them.
38:33
“Those things that persuade ya to believe in God, to love Him and to keep His commandments are from God.”
Uh-huh. I know. I think we’ve already beaten this dead horse, plenty. So what gives?
38:41
“You will miss spiritually important events© if you choose persistent doubt, fueled by answers from faithless and unfaithful sources.”
Oh. I see. So you’re dealing out a threat against THOUGHT CRIMES AGAINST THE CHURCH© again.
Guess what? I would call a fisherman© who lowers a traumatized© person back into the water while they are still in shock, and has no qualms about letting them perish is more of A THREAT than obeying the Lord’s injunction to “prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.”
You’re going to circle back to your condemning, completely uninspired parable©, aren’t you? (Psst: that’s called circular reasoning).
38:53
“Returning to our parable©, those who choose to stay on the well-used dented Boat©, with the chipped paint, and those who recognize that the Boat© saved them from drowning, and can get them safe are those – they’ll© save them and get them safely to shore.”
Did you mess up, Ruth, in stumbling over your words, at the end, just then, because deep down you know that you are teaching falsehood?!
How could you have more clearly expressed the blasphemous idea that THE CHURCH© IS YOUR SAVIOR?!
Not only that affront to God, but another: that THE CHURCH© IS ONLY OBLIGATED TO SAVE THOSE WHO BEND, SCRAPE, AND EVER-HUMBLY BLINDLY OBEY THEM, WITH NO CONDITIONS OR QUALIFIERS IMPOSED, IN RETURN, UPON THE CHURCH© OR ITS REPRESENTATIVES©?
How can you more clearly have expressed the idea that NOTHING ELSE CAN SAVE YOU BUT THE CHURCH©?
You at the barricade listen to this! No one is coming to help you to fight! You’re on your own! You have no friends! Give up your guns – or die! – Les Miserables
“They’ll© save them and get them safely to shore©”?? Are you seriously daring to assert in this blanket statement, that ALL CHURCH© LEADERS© ARE YOUR SAVIOR ?
Are you so steeped in arrogance that you continue to deny, like some kind of usurping pirate, that THE BOAT is THE MEMBERS WHO ARE UNIFIED IN CHRIST ALONE with CHRIST ALONE as THE CAPTAIN OF THEIR SALVATION ?!
In this blazing light of scrutiny, your false assertions can be seen for what they are: the very definition of the attitude of a cult!
To I will respond as Joan of Arc responded to the church® and clergy® of her day, at her trial, or rather, kangaroo court.
JUDGE: “Do you not then believe you are subject to the Church of God® which is on earth, that is to say to our Lord the Pope®, to the Cardinals®, the Archbishops®, Bishops®, and other prelates® of the Church®?”
JOAN: “Yes, I believe myself subject to them®; but God must be served first.”
39:11
“In other words, they get on the Covenant© Path© and stay on the Covenant© Path©.”
The Covenant© Path©: In other words, the unconditional, unqualified surrender of your will, your mind, your feelings and your sovereign spiritual rights and gifts to Intellectual Reserve© and the Corporation of the President of the Church©.
But I say, if the Church© and it’s Leaders© break their own covenant© to that God they claim to represent, Amen to the binding power of any commitment I made to them!
Amen to any obligation requiring me to associate myself with or bind myself to those who neither serve the Savior nor the Almighty Father of Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth (JST Appendix Mark 9:40-48)! The Covenant© Path© is not my focus or my idol of a destination. THE TREE OF LIFE, MY SAVIOR, IS!
39:14
“Then, as they endure to the end, the Promise of Eternal Life© is extended©.”
It is that eternal life which is extended by God, and He is able to do his own work.
O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
– 2 Nephi 9:41
39:19
“This is the greatest gift God can give.”
Um… duh.
And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.
– D&C 14:7
39:21
“It’s through this process that we come to know Jesus Christ; to know of his living reality; to know of his love and compassion.”
I found all of this out while excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints© and despite the harm that caustic individuals like you heaped upon my head! Obviously, this reality hasn’t happened for you, yet, Ruth, for you act nothing like Him.
39:30
“The Doctrine and Covenants says, ‘To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful[ly]”
That’s D&C 46:13-14. Now you’re going to spin it.
39:50
“Notice that the reward is the same whether you know or believe: eternal life to the faithful.”
Again with that knowing look of superiority. You honestly think you’ve got it made, don’t you? And this somehow puts you in a position to condemn the rest of us “slowpokes”?
. . .
41:08
“But then I learned that he was distracted that evening because he desperately wanted to share with me a dream that he’d had the night before.”
Why are you about to share this with a worldwide audience? It may be sacred to your family, and it may even be revelation given within that sphere. But the prophetic authority, if any, of your father’s dream does not extend outward, beyond himself. No, it only includes himself, perhaps his spouse, and maybe his posterity. But go ahead and share your anecdote, I guess. It has no authority© over me and there is no admonition© that I must accept, let alone believe it.
41:32
“He’d always been brutally and tactlessly honest.”
“Honest” huh? Add this comment up to all your previous comments about your father – predominantly negative – and I’d say you married a woman a lot like your dad. #ballsinajar
It brings a certain passage of scripture to mind.
… but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. – Ezekiel 34:4
41:35
” ‘I dreamed I died and saw the Savior, Jesus Christ…”
Really? A man who couldn’t even acknowledge his son’s accomplishment of “having arrived” at the highest pinnacle of Mormon© power, complete with a permanent paycheck and the fixed security of remaining, for the rest of his life, affixed to an automated conveyor belt of authority© and power© that would end in Everlasting Memory In Honor And Glory within the annals of Church© History©? A conveyor belt that might even plop his own son into the ultimate driver’s seat that accompanies the Prophet’s© mantle? He saw God? Is this supposed to be the D&C 121:43 part of y’all’s talk? What a joke.
Dale, I’m not buying your “choking up in tears at the mention of Jesus” act, either.
41:41
“… He took me in his arms and said that my sins were forgiven. And Dale, it felt so good.’ That was all he said.”
“Son, you may have been made an Apostle© of the Lord Jesus Christ©, but I saw Him. So there.
41:53
“And I was constrained from asking anything further. He died two months later when Ruth and I were in Madagascar . . . He did all that he was ever asked to do [by the Church©]. He became one who qualified for that gift of the Spirit to know that Jesus is the Christ and was crucified for the sins of the world and for his sins.”
At the END of his life. What a “promise”. Compare that to the teachings in the Lectures on Faith.
“An actual knowledge that the course of life which one is pursuing is according to the Will of God is part of the three things necessary for any rational and intelligent being to exercise faith in God unto life and salvation. WITHOUT these three internal witnesses, “the faith of every rational being must be IMPERFECT and UNPRODUCTIVE.”
Hm. How ’bout that. The actual knowledge… thy sins are forgiven thee… ye are clean, every whit… is supposed to come more at the beginning than at the end.
And AGAIN with the unspoken inference that Doubting Brats can not be troubled by LDS© Church© History©, LDS© Leadership© Behavior© AND have faith in or a witness of Jesus Christ.
Wrong.
I have two choices: faith in Jesus Christ or doubt in Jesus Christ. I feel faith in Jesus Christ, I choose faith in Jesus Christ, and in some things I even have a knowledge of the loyal loving kindness and beautiful goodness of my Lord and Savior. Much of this testimony has nothing to do with the Institutional Church© or its Authorized Leaders© at all. In fact, much of it came in spite of these. My personal testimony of Christ developed slowly, by the witness of the Spirit to my heart and mind, when I exercised my faith in Christ.
I have two choices: unquestioning Faith In The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints And Its Leaders© (since they insist this is ONE inseparable entity) or doubt in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints©. And its Leaders©. The kind of faith that the Renlunds and the Brethren© are demanding is unfair, especially since they will not grant that same, equal courtesy to its troubled and victimized members. There is no covenant grip going on here; the grasp has been broken.
What there is is an Earthly Regent, long-accustomed to adoration and idolization, who is throwing a temper tantrum at the loss of complete control. I am sorry, but I can not have unquestioning faith in that. It would be unwise of me, perhaps even personally hazardous, to do so. Who’s the baby now?
If the Church© and its Leaders© really desire the type of faith they used to enjoy from more of its membership , then they would more honorably and exactly mirror the perfect responsibility, accountability and authority exercised by the Captain of Our Salvation, even Jesus Christ. I am waiting, in faith, for the day that they do. But, until then, I will continue to entrust my soul to my God: he who does not condemn or forsake his own. He who is faithful in all things. He is not the Church© or its Leaders©, and he can and will do his own work among his children, with or without them.
42:32
“Qualifying for this gift is not gender-dependent, and it’s not Priesthood©-office© dependent.”
Well, that’s a relief. Because I’m still disqualified from so many other things based on my gender© and my lack of office© within the power of the Priesthood© endowed© upon me.
42:35
“It’s the promised reward for choosing faith© and choosing the Covenant Path ©.”
Hee-haw. Donkey© want a carrot©?
42:42
“So how can we develop faith, and keep it strong? Well, it takes some work. Have you ever been in a math class, lets say calculus, and watched the professor work a problem? Does his knowledge automatically transfer to you because you watched the professor find the answer? Sadly, no. To acquire the knowledge, the same knowledge the professor has, you need to work the calculus problems, on your own. You need to study; work all the calculus problems until you are comfortable. With the process, the equations, all the symbols.”
I find your continued, near-constant patronizing tone so very stimulating….
43:21
“In a similar way, finding faith and strengthening faith takes work. We may be inspired by someone who has great faith, but another’s faith is not transferable to us in the process. We must do our own studying from the Scriptures©, and the Words© of the Living Prophets©. We must pray, really work communicating with Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ. It’s essential to worthily partake of the sacrament© each week. And remember how merciful God has been to each of us, to give his Son to atone for our sins. These personal, private acts of devotion build and maintain faith.”
Oh? You mean the life-jacket that you mocked as insufficient a few times before in this talk? (See 16:31, 19:27, 38:53 ) Now it comes in handy and is of some use to you? As in, to beat us over the head with it because you’re assuming that any Brat with questions or doubts isn’t doing any of these things?
Wherefore, if a man have faith in Jesus Christ he must needs have hope of salvation; for without faith in Jesus Christ there cannot be any hope of salvation.
And again, behold I say unto you that he cannot have faith in Jesus Christ and hope of salvation, save he shall be meek, and lowly of heart.
If so, his faith and hope is vain, for none is acceptable before God, save the meek and lowly in heart; and if a man be meek and lowly in heart, and confesses by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, he must needs have charity; for if he have not charity he is nothing; wherefore he must needs have charity.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up; Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies©, they shall fail; whether there be tongues©, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge©, it shall vanish away.
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things© must fail.
Though I study my Scriptures© and the Words of the Living Prophets© but have not charity, I am nothing. And though I pray, really work at communicating with my Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, and have not charity, I am as sounding brass and tinkling cymbal. And though I profess to worthily partake of the sacrament each week, and though I remember the mercy of God in giving his Son to atone for my sins, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I stand at a podium and haughtily deliver my philosophies and homemade parables – mingled with scripture – even if for a second Church-authorized time© and before a worldwide audience, no less, and have not charity, I am nothing.
But charity is the Pure Love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these ischarity.
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.
44:07
“The first responsibility I had, as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve©, was to go and tell the Church© History© Department© that I’d be replacing Elder Jeffrey R Holland© as one of the advisers to their department. As you can imagine, there was ‘weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth’ as they learned that one of their beloved advisers would be replaced. An acute Kleenex shortage developed.”
Oh, those kids! Throwing another tantrum in the boat! Look at how Sister Renlund just smirks through this. Does she honestly think that hides the venom she feels? Obviously this couple, as much as they “laugh” and jest has more than a teensy problem with Elder© Holland’s popularity. If it looks like envy, and sounds like envy, it probably is.
44:36
“As part of my assignment as an advisor to the Church© History© Department©, I’ve read all of the volumes of The Joseph Smith Papers©. I’ve also read the first volume and the first portion of the second volume of the new narrative history of the Church© entitled Saints©. Reading everything Joseph Smith ever wrote, or was reported to have said, has simply strengthened my testimony of his role as a prophet, chosen of God to restore His work on earth.
Joseph Smith was always true to his testimony. He was consistent. He always behaved as one who had actually seen our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, Moroni, John the Baptist, Peter, James and John, Moses, Elias and Elijah. He acted as one who had possessed the Golden Plates© and translated those ancient texts by the gift and power of God. He acted as one who received revelation from Jesus Christ himself. He acted as one who had received Priesthood Authority© and Keys of the Holy Apostleship©.”
I am glad Elder© Renlund was given access to these materials and had the time to read them. I am glad he believes that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, because I do too.
What I don’t like, sometimes, is how Joseph is sometimes so raised in praise as to seem to approach near demi-god status. He was still a man, like we are, with the afflictions, imperfections and infirmities thereof. I am not sure he would even be comfortable with the accolades, as I believe his attitude would be much more frank, like that of the angel in Revelations:
Then saith he unto me, See thou [worship me] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
– Revelations 22:9
This phrase Elder Renlund kept repeating, “he always acted as one” is a bit baffling. How can he affirm that he knows how a person like that acts? Who else, among all those with whom he has associated in his entire life has seen Deity and other heavenly beings AND hefted ancient gold records AND experienced theophany, yes conversed with Christ AND borne priesthood authority and keys? No one. There is no one else like Joseph.
46:28
“What we consider dents and peeling paint on the well-used boat may turn out to be divinely sanctioned and divinely directed from an eternal perspective. The Lord has either had a hand in the dents©, and the peeling paint©, or, He uses them for his purposes©.”
Oh! So the Church’s© errors and the Church Leader’s© errors are all GOD’S fault! That just clears up everything! So God himself either created the evils done in His name with his own hand, or He’s so buzzed-out on heavenly weed that he’s “totally good” with tolerating them.
This is the most audacious Straw Man Argument ever, but clergy are sure bold to use it, and often, too. They love it! For how can anyone dare to question GOD, let alone argue with the omnipotent WILL OF GOD ? To believe that God could will evil is to believe that God is evil. But I believe in the God of Love.
Laying blame for Church© errors and Church© Leader© errors squarely in the lap of God indicates that somehow, deep down in side, they think he really isn’t omnipresent or omniscient. It’s the same line of bull that a lot of LDS© abuse victims are told, and it’s a lie.
And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men©; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.
– Title Page of the Book of Mormon
For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all.
– Alma 41:15
These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look,
a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,
feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies,
and he that soweth discord among brethren.
– Proverbs 6:16-19
For behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you that the Lord God worketh not in darkness.
He doeth not anything save it be for the benefit of the world; for he loveth the world, even that he layeth down his own life that he may draw all men unto him. Wherefore, he commandeth none that they shall not partake of his salvation.
– 2 Nephi 26:23-24
46:58
“I’m grateful to add my testimony that I know Jesus Christ is our Savior. When we exercise faith, not doubt, in His Atoning Sacrifice, and the fruits of His Atonement, our lives are eternally blessed…”
I’m grateful you’re about to shut up, Sister Renlund, and I hope I never have to hear your voice or see your face again!
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; . . . idolatry . . . hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife… heresies, envyings . . .of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. . .
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
The phrase, “fruits of the atonement”© is not found in scripture. It’s first LDS© General Conference© mention was in the late 20th century, beginning in 1991.
“Repentance and forgiveness are among the greatest fruits of the Atonement. It is not easy to remove the thorns of pride, the thistles of selfishness, the slivers of ego, and the briars of appetite.” – Elder© James E Faust, April 1991
Through the bestowal of the Holy Ghost, members are cleansed with fire, guided into truth, comforted, sanctified, and blessed in many ways as partakers of the fruits of the Atonement. – Elder© Merrill J Bateman, October 2003
The Father… made it possible for His perfect Son to win the eternal fruits of the Atonement. None of us can ever adequately appreciate in mortality the full beneficial consequences of the Atonement. – Elder© Richard G Scott, April 2010
In this dispensation, we fulfill the plan of the Father and partake of the fruits of the Atonement only *by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel, restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith. – Elder© Lawrence E Corbridge, April 2014
(* ©We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by…)
And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him [fruits of the Atonement] and have become his sons and his daughters.
And under this head ye are made free, and there is no other head whereby ye can be made free. There is no other name given whereby salvation cometh; therefore, I would that ye should take upon you the name of Christ, all you that have entered into the covenant with God that ye should be obedient unto the end of your lives.
And it shall come to pass that whosoever doeth this shall be found at the right hand of God, for he shall know the name by which he is called; for he shall be called by the name of Christ
– Mosiah 5:7-9
I have a sneaking suspicion or fear that Sister Renlund actually composed most of this talk and originally presented it in her home ward©. Or maybe she first delivered it at some stake© conference© where she was asked to speak with her husband. Perhaps it’s origins were simpler than that, being written as a scathing, shaming diatribe in a letter to their errant only child. In any case, he, admiring her familiar “go-for-the-throat” attack-dog attorney’s approach, with confidence that it was chock full of intellectual and ecclesiastical brilliance yet unknown to the world, felt so proud that he mistook the profuse amount of blood floating in the water by the well-used boat© as coming from accolades of thrown red roses. Yes, wowed by the power of this spiritual strychnine©, he desired that all might partake of it. Indeed, using his position and influence, at least TWO very impressionable worldwide LDS© audiences have been properly shamed and condemned with this stagnant water© by now. Unchecked and officially© encouraged by the attention, their address© has now morphed into this utter monstrosity: a vicious monologue posing as a duet while the dud stands by, dazed or drooling (it really doesn’t matter) AND a verbally venomous violation of victims, clothed in the robes of the holy apostleship©.
47:30
“As I have come to know the Savior, I have learned of his great desire to help wounds heal, and to mend broken hearts.”
THEN WHY DID YOU JUST DO WHAT YOU DID?!
WHY DID YOU JUST SANCTION WHAT YOUR WIFE JUST DID?!
And now, my brethren, I have spoken unto you concerning pride; and those of you which have afflicted your neighbor, and persecuted him because ye were proud in your hearts, of the things which God hath given you, what say ye of it?
Do ye not suppose that such things are abominable unto him who created all flesh? And the one being is as precious in his sight as the other. And all flesh is of the dust; and for the selfsame end hath he created them, that they should keep his commandments and glorify him forever. . .
…I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters [and sons] of my people on [the Ship Zion], yea, and in all the [boats] of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their [fishermen©].
And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair [sons and] daughters of this people, which I have led [through the mighty deep (2 Nephi 1:6)], shall come up unto me against the men© of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
Back into the water to the sharks and lightening storm with YOU!
47:56
“I pray that you’ll develop faith in Jesus Christ…”
Why do you assume that I haven’t? That the Young Adults of this Church© haven’t? Patronizing, patronizing!! The difficulty so many members are having isn’t with Christ, it’s with the mistakes of men and of the Institutional Church© doing evil in His name.
47:57
“That you’ll doubt not, but BeBelieving©. I invite you to increase your faith, in Christ, by studying the scriptures©, and the words of Living Prophets©, praying and communicating with Heavenly Father, and conscientiously preparing for and worthily partaking of the Sacrament© each week. God will bless you as you engage in these personal, private acts of devotion, and serve and minister to others…”
I guess that life jacket’s not so bad, huh? But no thanks, I’ll pass on the blinders©.
History has already taught us what happens to ships that boast they are unsinkable.
MRS REED:
I have done what I can for the child, but she has a willful, obstinate nature.
Ah, here she is.
This is Jane Eyre.
Jane, this is Mr. Brocklehurst of Lowood School.
JANE:
How do you do, sir?
BROCKLEHURST:
I hear you’re a wicked child, Jane Eyre.
Let me examine you.
Do you know where the wicked go after death?
JANE:
To Hell.
BROCKLEHURST:
What is Hell?
Can you tell me that?
JANE:
A pit full of fire.
BROCKLEHURST:
And should you like to fall into that pit and to burn there forever?
JANE:
No, sir.
BROCKLEHURST:
What must you do to avoid it?
JANE:
Keep well and not die, sir. (John 11:26-27)
MRS REED:
It is as I said.
You must warn her teachers to keep a strict eye on her,
and above all, to guard against her worst fault,
her tendency to deceit! (2 Nephi 9:40)
YES. YES, THIS TALK© WAS REALLY THAT BAD:
A List Of Non-trusted, Non-reliable,
Uncorrelated Witnesses Like My Own
AMJUNUS@BLOGSPOT.COM
“And the boat thing comes up again…I wrote a blog post on this over 3 years ago”
Pirates of the Deseret, or Mutiny on the Bountiful by Anna Maria Junus
BYCOMMONCONSENT.COM
Choosing Between the Boat and the Ocean by Amber Haslett. Written September 2018!
CHURCHISTRUE.COM
Elder and Sister Renlund Worldwide Devotional on Faith and Doubt
DAILYMORMONTHOUGHTS.COM
Elder Dale G. Renlund on allowing for personalized rates of progress
FOURTHWAVERISING.COM
Response to Elder Renlund’s Worldwide Devotional on Faith and Doubt by Noelle Ihli
LDSDISCUSSIONS.COM
Navigating Doubts in the LDS Church (January 16, 2019)
MORMONCHANNEL.ORG
Daily Quote: Reach out with Love
MORMONCHANNEL.ORG
Daily Quote: We Must Be Respectful
MORMONDISCUSSIONS.COM
The Renlunds – Overcoming Doubt With Faith
MORMON RESEARCH MINISTRY
An LDS Apostle’s Attitude Toward Doubting Mormons by Sharon Lindbloom
NOTPINTERESTWORTHY.COM
We Can Break The Silence
QUESTIONINGTHECHURCH.BLOGSPOT.COM
Against the Greater Light: Stay in the Fishing Boat
RADIO FREE MORMON – MORMON DISCUSSIONS PODCAST
The Renlunds, A Dilapidated Dinghy, and Church Wack-A-Mole Part 1
RADIO FREE MORMON – MORMON DISCUSSIONS PODCAST
The Renlunds, A Dilapidated Dinghy, and Church Wack-A-Mole Part 2
RADIO FREE MORMON – MORMON DISCUSSIONS PODCAST
The Renlunds, A Dilapidated Dinghy, and Church Wack-A-Mole Part 3
REDDIT
“Dale G Renlund just posted this on Facebook” 2017
REDDIT
“Detailed response to January 2019 Devotional with the Renlunds on Overcoming Doubts with Faith”
REDDIT
“Elder Renlund, thank you for the maritime metaphor! Here’s one for you and your colleagues”
REDDIT
“It’s not whack-a-mole, it’s connect the dots…”
REDDIT
“My thoughts on the Renlund Faith/Doubt Fireside”
REDDIT
This talk was given by Elder Renlund, alone, in Sweden on April 29, 2018. The author, who provided this information to John Dehlin, believes the talk was delivered in response to the release of a book by Hans Mattsson about leaving the Church.
“Swedish Rescue 2018 . . . Not fun stuff.”
REDDIT
“Renlund is clueless because he’s part of the bubble of rich/elite cluelessness”
REDDIT
“Renlund’s devotional on doubt isn’t targeted to doubters”
REDDIT
“This Renlund devotional everyone is sharing is so infuriating…”
RELIGIOUS NEWS SERVICE
How Mormons handle doubt: Blame the victim by Jana Riess
SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
Commentary: Latter-day Saint apostle misses the mark on doubt by blaming the victim
THE-EXPONENT.COM
Guest Post: A Boat Story by Laurel
WALKINGTHROUGHTHENIGHT.WORDPRESS.COM
I Am a Stinky Fisherman (January 19, 2019)
WHEATANDTARES.ORG
The Necessity of Doubt by Cody Hatch
YOUTUBE
Steven’s Response to Elder and Sister Renlund History of the LDS Saints
YOUTUBE
Elder Renlund vs LDS Historian Steve Harper History of the LDS Saints
This post is dedicated to fellow sister scriptorian, Janice Merrill Allred.
I must be free, too.
[Video: Boundin’, a Pixar Short]
UPDATE: APRIL 2019
[Video: TedTalk, “Leaving the Cult of Happiness” presented by Keely Herron. Because of the rabid Renlund rant, I love the part where Keely mentions Whack-A-Mole. ]
The most personal reason why the Renlund talk has continued to infuriate me since I wrote this post was finally shared this month in a subsequent blog post entitled My Shelf Has Broken. The Renlund’s openly, unabashedly weaponized address was immediately utilized exactly as I believe it’s authors intended: as a tool to accuse, ridicule, condemn, and if possible, to cause serious spiritual harm all for the purpose of maintaining control. When I analyzed the talk in January, I didn’t yet know what had happened to my angel of a child that same month. I only found out – to my renewed and now rabid Mama Bear rage – after the fact. Scroll down in My Shelf Has Broken to the point where the same meme pictured to the right of this paragraph appears in that post and read what was done to her for yourself.
UPDATE: JUNE 2019
I came across this ad while doing genealogy research and thought it applied.
You can feed more bees with honey than you can with vinegar, Ship Zion.
And according to the LDS temple ceremony, I don’t recall God “helping us slip back into” the wild ocean of this Terrestrial World without providing us with help and hope through Jesus Christ. Not your damn boat.
UPDATE: JULY 2019
The Inchcape Rock
… And now you know how the Renlund’s parable really ends.
Note: This essay may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. This presentation is making such material available in an effort to advance understanding of religious issues. This essay presentation is a Creative Commons work – available for free in the public domain – of criticism, commentary, research and nonprofit education and thus constitutes a ‘Fair Use’ of any such copyrighted material as provided in the United States Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 107.
OilStories: Adventures In Living 
Leave a comment
Comments feed for this article